My first RepRap - SmartRap Core - Choosing parts

Hi everybody,

I've decided to start building with a SmartRap Core. First I want to buy the electronic parts.
So now is time to start my purchasing, but I have some doubts about the different models that are available.

I'm interested in this KIT sells at eBay:
eBay Kit

Also I've found this other kit from Aliexpress:
Aliexpress Kit

I'd really prefer buy the first Kit, but I have some doubts:

Q1: I like to know if the Mega 2560 from the eBay Kit works like any other clone of MEGA 2560 R3.
Sorry if this is a silly question, but I want to know because this is a different color (black and yellow) than the usual clones (blue), like in the Aliexpress Kit.

Q2: Also I want to know if the jumpers are really necessary, I can see the eBay Kit doesn't have them. Aren't they necessary?

Q3: Besides I want to know if the heatsinks for the A4988 are necessary, eBay Kit don't provide them. I suppose all A4988 have the same characteristics, right?

Q4: Which is better LCD 12864 vs LCD 2004?

Maybe this is a better option?
Kit 3

Q5: Besides I want to know which is good model of stepper motor NEMA17. Is the model 17HS2408 a good choice?
Also I can see a table of differents models in the middle of this page Table NEMA 17 Models

Q6: At this moment I don't have printed parts for the SmartRap Core and are very expensive, I was thinking that I can make them of wood and replace them once after I build the 3D printer. Do you think this would be a reasonable idea? I think that they can be made easily

Sorry, I'm a newbie in this topic and thanks a lot for any help you can give me
Best regards,

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2015 01:20AM by Richard PV.

Hi Rich,

Don't be sorry, we were all newbies someday.

So, first we don't know about your budget.
Maybe sometimes the price tag decides, but you can often get much better for few more bucks.

Q1 Colour of PCBs don't make things better or worst.
The Arduino board is under the ramps you won't be able to see it anyways.
Otherhand, over the ramps there's a forest of cables too that hides most of anything.
At a time, you will be fade up by that wiring catching anything around and will make a ventilated enclosure anyways.

A CoreXY printer can print fast (you will want that), but only with a decent board.
May I suggest a 32 bits board ? It's much simpler (All In One), quicker, and it's a better quality than cheap ramps clones.
See MKS Sbase 32bits board

Q2 In a RAMPS, the jumpers are highly recommanded, It allows to use the microstepping features or your drivers,
that smooth the motion and reduces noise.

Q3You need heatsinks (about $0.2 each) and you need to ventilate your board (drivers and mosfet).
All the A4988 are not built the same, quality may change obviously, and output resistance (Rs) may change between 0.05 to 0.2 ohms.
The output current setup of your drivers depends of the RS value, please not S1 and S2 value before glueing the heatsinks.

Here, S1 and S2 = 100 so the Rs is 0.1 ohms. (50=0,05 ; 200=0,2 ohms)

Q4 Definitely the 12864 is better, you can read 2 more lines which is 150% better

Q5 The 17HS2408 don't have a lot of torque. To me it's not suitable for most applications.
I could tell it could work for this or that, but let's make it simple for you.
At last, you want a torque of 0,22Nm (32oz.in) for your motors, like with the 42SHD0503.
But to me, you'd rather go directly for high torque motors like 17HS8401,
and your motors will fit any machine in the future

Q6Most of the plastic parts needs to be precise and will be realy complicated to be machined acurately with ordinary tools, especialy with wood.
Wood needs to be upscaled to be strong. Wood can expand and contract under moisture variations. Bad idea.
Save money. Maybe you've got a fablab near you. You can ask to a forum member near your area, or maybe you know a friend with a 3d printer.

Good luck !

++JM

If you get an arduino board make sure to get a 2004 screen with it. A graphic lcd makes corexy movements above 30mm/s erratic.

Heatsinks are a waste of time on A4988 drivers, because the chip is designed to be cooled through the PCB, not the plastic top of the chip which is a poor conductor of heat. They may even do more harm than good by restricting the flow of air around the PCB.

If you are going to use either a servo-controlled Z probe or a 12864 LCD then you must provide external 5V power to the Arduino/RAMPS. Personally, I wouldn't touch Arduino/RAMPS. It's only virtue is that it is cheap.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
Edvardas
If you get an arduino board make sure to get a 2004 screen with it. A graphic lcd makes corexy movements above 30mm/s erratic.

Hi Edvardas,
Could you please explain me why add a LCD to the CoreXY would create an error in movements? I thought that LCD only gives a way to show information.
Also why you said that if I use an arduino board (Arduino Mega in my case). I must get a LCD 2004, it is a bad option choose LCD 12864? Why?

LCD 2004


LCD 12864

Quote
Richard PV

Quote
Edvardas
If you get an arduino board make sure to get a 2004 screen with it. A graphic lcd makes corexy movements above 30mm/s erratic.

Hi Edvardas,
Could you please explain me why add a LCD to the CoreXY would create an error in movements? I thought that LCD only gives a way to show information.
Also why you said that if I use an arduino board (Arduino Mega in my case). I must get a LCD 2004, it is a bad option choose LCD 12864? Why?

LCD 2004

1-Pcs-LCD-Display-3D-Printer-Reprap-Smart-Controller-Reprap-Ramps-1-4-2004LCD-Control.jpg_350x350.jpg

LCD 12864

14053305610.jpg

It would create pauses between movements because 8bit Arduino mega does not have enough power to do both corexy calculations and show information on 12864 screen. This has been mentioned in this forum and can be found using search.

Personally I have built my corexy printer containing full graphic lcd just a few weeks ago and experienced mentioned symptoms. Fortunately I can just put full graphic lcd on my prusa i3 but I will have to get a 2004 lcd for corexy printer.

If you want to use 12864 screen for corexy printer you have to get a 32bit board.

Quote
J-Max
Hi Rich,

Don't be sorry, we were all newbies someday.

So, first we don't know about your budget.
Maybe sometimes the price tag decides, but you can often get much better for few more bucks.

I was thinking to invest about $200, but I it could be more if it is worth, maybe $250 or a little more. Well that's my budget. What I really want is the knowledge that I could get at this project.
Before, I have questioned on the forum about which would be the best model to start. The answer that I got was the SmartRap CoreXY
Of course if I can get something better for a few more bucks, would be great. But since it is my first 3D Printer I'd prefer don't spend too much.

Quote

Q1 Colour of PCBs don't make things better or worst.
The Arduino board is under the ramps you won't be able to see it anyways.
Otherhand, over the ramps there's a forest of cables too that hides most of anything.
At a time, you will be fade up by that wiring catching anything around and will make a ventilated enclosure anyways.

A CoreXY printer can print fast (you will want that), but only with a decent board.
May I suggest a 32 bits board ? It's much simpler (All In One), quicker, and it's a better quality than cheap ramps clones.
See MKS Sbase 32bits board

Thanks for the aclaration about the color.
That 32 bits board is a good suggestion. However since this is my first attempt to build one 3D printer I prefer don't spend so much, the other Kits that I've shown cost about only $30 and they include the LCD. The 32 bits board costs about $55. I'd prefer start with the cheaper. For my next 3D printer probably this 32 bit board would be better.
So I think this kit would be ok:
eBay Kit

Quote

Q2 In a RAMPS, the jumpers are highly recommanded, It allows to use the microstepping features or your drivers,
that smooth the motion and reduces noise.

Now I understand. Besides when I zoom the image of the ramps board I can see that the jumpers are also there. So they are inlcuded in the kit.

Quote

Q3You need heatsinks (about $0.2 each) and you need to ventilate your board (drivers and mosfet).
All the A4988 are not built the same, quality may change obviously, and output resistance (Rs) may change between 0.05 to 0.2 ohms.
The output current setup of your drivers depends of the RS value, please not S1 and S2 value before glueing the heatsinks.

s1.jpg.1d85a4bab609a296e2bea1021d1337dc.jpg

Here, S1 and S2 = 100 so the Rs is 0.1 ohms. (50=0,05 ; 200=0,2 ohms)

About the heatsinks, I'll look for more info about if they are actually necessary. According the user dc42 are not.
About resistance which is better 0.05 or 0.2 ohms? About the values S1 and S2 that you show in the picture, why did you say that if S1=S2=0.1 ohms then Rs=0.1. It wouldn't be the half (0.05 ohms) if they are in parallel?

Quote

Q4 Definitely the 12864 is better, you can read 2 more lines which is 150% better

Yeah!

Quote

Q5 The 17HS2408 don't have a lot of torque. To me it's not suitable for most applications.
I could tell it could work for this or that, but let's make it simple for you.
At last, you want a torque of 0,22Nm (32oz.in) for your motors, like with the 42SHD0503.
But to me, you'd rather go directly for high torque motors like 17HS8401,
and your motors will fit any machine in the future

I couldn't find the 42SHD0503 you mentioned, only I've found this model 42SHD0217-24B
I did find the model 17HS8401 here
What do you think about the 17HS4401, it has 0,40 Nm (40 Nm). I know that 17HS8401 has 0,52Nm, but maybe 17HS4401 is ok?
I'm a little confused about the different models? Do they have different length (size) and weight? Are they going to fit well in my structure for CoreXY?

Quote

Q6Most of the plastic parts needs to be precise and will be realy complicated to be machined acurately with ordinary tools, especialy with wood.
Wood needs to be upscaled to be strong. Wood can expand and contract under moisture variations. Bad idea.
Save money. Maybe you've got a fablab near you. You can ask to a forum member near your area, or maybe you know a friend with a 3d printer.

Well, it might be better try to find a forum member who can help me.
You know if there is a place in the forum where I can ask for help for this?
I'm from Peru.


If you have any suggestion or clarification I'll appreciate them
Thanks a lot for the time you have taken to answer my questions

Best regards,

Quote
Richard PV
What do you think about the 17HS4401, it has 0,40 Nm (40 Nm).

That motor is adequate for XYZ drive, and also for a geared extruder, but not for a direct drive (non geared) extruder. However, a motor with a rated current of about 1.3A rather than 1.7A would be a better match for cheap A4988 plug-in drivers.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Hi,

I appreciate a lot the help of all of yours

After some research of pros and cons now I realize that It could be actually a better idea to use a 32 bits boards as J-Max suggested me.
Well basically my idea now is buy the common kit ( Kit RAMPS 1.4 + Mega 2560 + 5x A4988 ) and a 32 bits board, also the LCD
For that reason I've thought that It could be a good idea buy:

• Kit RAMPS 1.4 + Mega 2560 + 5x A4988
• 32 bit board
• LCD 2004 or LCD 12864 or maybe both?

Note: With the extra parts I could build another 3d printer once I finish to build the first one. Also it would be useful to test both boards pros and cons

Kit RAMPS 1.4 + Mega 2560 + 5x A4988 and LCDs
Kit+LCD12864 + LCD 2004

Choosing 32 bits board
I've found this MKS SBase V1.1. What do you think about the this option?
Which is a little different from this MKS Sbase 32bits board that J-Max showed before. Basically the different are some heatsink and one connector at the lower left corner

* Is this kit a 32 bits board?
* Is this 32 bits board a very good option or there's other better (No expensive)?
* Do you think this will work well with any NEMA17 motor? even the 17HS8401?
* Also I wonder why this board MKS SBase isn't in the Official Reprap list

Other questions:
When the electronic boards and the motors arrive is there a way to test them before I build the 3d printer.
In other words can I just connect the boards, the motors and the power supply and run some test??
In order to know that the motors and boards arrive ok

If you have any suggestion or clarification I'll appreciate them
Thanks a lot for the time you have taken to answer my questions

Best regards,

Hi guys

A $200-250 budget is realy low but not impossible. A $300 budget is more comfortable.
You need to buy mostly cheap items and/or try to find or recycle as many components you can find for free. (Old PC PSU, woodframe, for example)
Obviously you can't buy parts for two printers within this budget.
It's your first attemps, keep things simple.

You just need one board (and one graphic controller).
Mega+Ramps+A4988 OR an all in one 32 bits board.

Pay attention : the MKS Base and MKS Sbase are very different.
The MKS Base is a 16 bit all in one Mega+Ramps basic board (no drivers included).
The MKS Sbase is a 32 bit all in one board, digital dirvers included. ($200 Smoothieboard alike, the MKS Sbase is actualy the better 32 choice at low cost).

Don't say you recieved the items before to be sure it works properly.
To test electromecanics, you need a PC, a PSU, the control board, and the motors.
You should upload a firmware into the board (Smoothieware for the MKS Sbase), setup basic parameters, and run few Gcode from a host software.
While you'll be waiting forward your components, you'll have some time to learn about that.

++JM

Hi guys

Quote
dc42

Quote
Richard PV
What do you think about the 17HS4401, it has 0,40 Nm (40 Nm).

That motor is adequate for XYZ drive, and also for a geared extruder, but not for a direct drive (non geared) extruder. However, a motor with a rated current of about 1.3A rather than 1.7A would be a better match for cheap A4988 plug-in drivers.

Could you please tell me if the CoreXY use a geared extruder or a direct drive (non geared extruder)? Sorry for this silly question
Could you please tell me which is which in these pictures picture A picture B

Quote
J-Max
A $200-250 budget is realy low but not impossible. A $300 budget is more comfortable.
You need to buy mostly cheap items and/or try to find or recycle as many components you can find for free. (Old PC PSU, woodframe, for example)
Obviously you can't buy parts for two printers within this budget.
It's your first attemps, keep things simple. winking smiley

I understand now, well my new budget is between $300-$350, indeed a little more if it were necessary. Obviously I'll buy cheap items and I'll try to recycle some parts if it were possible. What I want is to learn and understand how all these componentes work together and also some experimentation would be great.
When I was talking about to buy the KMS SBase and the common kit ( Kit RAMPS 1.4 + Mega 2560 + 5x A4988 ) , first I was thinking to test both electronic boards in the same 3D printer as a way to notice and experiment by myself the differences. Second, with the extra parts + a new budget, I could be able to build another one. Since the common kit isn't very expensive (about $25 here) it could be a way to gain experience.

Quote
J-Max
You just need one board (and one graphic controller).
Mega+Ramps+A4988 OR an all in one 32 bits board.

Now I think that the best option would be KMS SBase V1.2
* I'm thinking to buy this KMS SBase V1.2 $54.74 + this LCD 12864 $10.59

Quote
J-Max
Pay attention : the MKS Base and MKS Sbase are very different.
The MKS Base is a 16 bit all in one Mega+Ramps basic board (no drivers included).
The MKS Sbase is a 32 bit all in one board, digital dirvers included. ($200 Smoothieboard alike, the MKS Sbase is actualy the better 32 choice at low cost).

Don't say you recieved the items before to be sure it works properly.
To test electromecanics, you need a PC, a PSU, the control board, and the motors.
You should upload a firmware into the board (Smoothieware for the MKS Sbase), setup basic parameters, and run few Gcode from a host software.
While you'll be waiting forward your components, you'll have some time to learn about that.

Thanks for the clarification, the info and advices!

Hi guys,

Which fillament should I use? 1.75mm or 3mm? OR can I use both?

About the extruder, would be better to buy one of these?

option1
option2

Regards,

Are you sure you do not want to buy a full kit from smartfriendz? That way you can be sure that you will have a working printer quickly. Sourcing all the parts yourself can be a little frustrating as they might not work well with each other. I would definatelly suggest to buy your first printer as a kit that has a good support from the seller.

Hi guys,

I definitely share another point of view than Edvardas, even if I think the SmartRapCore is an interesting machine.
Actualy we're building our third SmartRapCore.
But we sourced the parts by ourselves, because it's the only way to save money while getting good components overall.

@RichardPV, actualy the 1.75mm is the standard. It needs less torque to be driven and offers a better extruding resolution,
because you need more motor steps to drive the same volume of filament compared to 2.85mm filaments.

The two extruders you shown are the same, just colour differs.
In the same style, you'd rather by this one, for many reasons : [www.ebay.com]

Note you may need to invert cables connectors to wire the 12864 controler to MKSsbase.
We'll talk about it when the time comes.

++JM

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2015 07:30AM by J-Max.

Quote
Edvardas
Are you sure you do not want to buy a full kit from smartfriendz? That way you can be sure that you will have a working printer quickly. Sourcing all the parts yourself can be a little frustrating as they might not work well with each other. I would definatelly suggest to buy your first printer as a kit that has a good support from the seller.

Yeah I was thinking that, I know that I'll probably have many problems, but I'm not in hurry right now.

Quote
J-Max
I definitely share another point of view than Edvardas, even if I think the SmartRapCore is an interesting machine.
Actualy we're building our third SmartRapCore.
But we sourced the parts by ourselves, because it's the only way to save money while getting good components overall.

I feel exactly the same way, I know that I can save many dollars and that's what I want.
However since this weekend we have Black Friday and Cyber Monday, it could be the case that I find a 3D printer enough cheap to make me change my mind

Quote
J-Max
The two extruders you shown are the same, just colour differs. winking smiley
In the same style, you'd rather by this one, for many reasons : [www.ebay.com]

Unfortunatelly that extruder in ebay, doesn't ship to my country. (That happen more usual than you imagine)


First Shopping:

* KMS Sbase V1.2 $54.74
* LCD 12864 $10.59

Motors:
What is the different between models 42SHDXXX (like 42SHD0503) and 17HSXXXX (like 17HS8401), is only from different brands? sellers?
All have the same length between the screws?

I'll look for the printed parts.
Thanks for the clarification, the info and advices! thumbs up

Best Regards,

Anyone tried this extruder [www.ebay.co.uk]

Hi guys,

MechaBits, I guess it's once again the cheap one RichardPV gave a link above.

On a feeder, you want several things :
- easy load/unload
- adjustability (spring/screw)
- a good drive gear (catch the filament and do not grind it)
- a good filament guidance since out of the gear.

On those extruders you don't get a good gear and you've got a 7mm gap between the gear and the guiding hole.
It's no good in my opinion. Here's an exemple of what you want :

And what you don't want :


Sorry for the link RichardPV, I believe you'll find a good one from a source near you

++JM

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2015 08:08AM by J-Max.

Ah I see, sorry bout dupe, filament could bend a little, deviating it from the hole, but maybe that cheap one could be modified with a little throat, I also have a different grooved drive cog.

Hi guys,

True, it can be modified or your can print your own later.
It's not more expensive to buy the right thing since the start anyways

++JM

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2015 06:12PM by J-Max.

Hi guys,

How have you been!
Finally I've found out that one of my friends has access (more or less) to a 3D printer, a Kossel I think! I'm not sure.
Now I need to buy fillament 1.75mm in order to print the parts that I need.

Also as I have some coupons from Aliexpress (until "tomorrow" Dec 1st ) I would like to buy most of the parts I need (specially the big ones)
I've already bought the KMS SBase v1.2 and the LCD 12864

So In order to choose the right decision I have some questions:

Q1: How much fillament (kg) I need to buy to build the parts (CoreXY) and make some tests? PLA or ABS which is better?

Q2: Which is a good fillament option to buy:
Item Aliexpress
Item 2 Aliexpress
Or maybe is much better this?
[builda3dprinter.eu]
I think this last is the best, the price per Kg is the same than the others and apparently is better, what do you think (It's FREE SHIPPING until tomorrow Dec 1st). There's a coupon.
I could buy this last one?
Is there an cheaper alternative material that I can use? Or some online store where is cheaper?
Really the filament is expensive, I thought that It would be cheaper

Also I want to buy more parts from Aliexpress

Motors

I want to buy 4 motors (maybe 5) 17HS8401

Motor option 1
Motor option 2
Q3: Are they the same? Only matters that they says 17HS8401, right? Which is a good option to buy?
The 17HS8401 is the best of the 17HS model, right?

Q4: I've been wondering if the MKS SBase can work well with any motor of the model 17HS, I have some doubts because I think (maybe I'm totally wrong) that for 17HS8401, the KMS Sbase board has to make extra efforts, than for 17HS2408.
Also I want to know why in some specs about the motors says "voltage: 3.75v", don't they work with 12v or 24v, or that value is the minimum voltage necessary to start to work?
Is there a big difference with others model like 42SHDXXXX, is 17HS8401 better? Or only is another brand with similar specs?

Q: BTW these motors can work for other projects like CNC machines? or they don't have enough power.

Heat Bed

Which is a good model. I've found a lot of options, cheapers and very expensive? .Any will work?
Any of these is a good option?
[www.aliexpress.com]
[www.aliexpress.com]
Q5: Which are a good option?

They are necessary for any kind of materials? PLA or ABS?
Are there other kind of material I can use once I have a heat Bed?

* Hot end
Which is a good model that you can recommend me?
[www.aliexpress.com]

Thank a lot for all your help, and sorry for many silly questions.
If you have any advice to share, I'll appreciate a lot.

Best regards

Hi guys,

Q1 : 1kg is pretty enough, but as you want to depreciate shipping cost,
it's probably wise to get several spools of filament.
Otherhand, I don't print with the same colour depending of the final location of the part : house, workshop, car/bike...
Reprappers wants some filament choice and have some stock anyways.

Q2 : Only buy a trusted brand filament. Quality filaments prints easy, and have no issues.
Choosing a filament provider depends a lot of your location.
USA : try Makergeeks EU : try ReprapWorld Dutch(Real) filament. Worldwide : I dunno...

Q3 : As the reference is identical, it's the same motor coming from the same factory.
17HS8401 is probably not the best ever, but it's a good one. A powerfull and silent one.
The 42BYGHW609 is as good as the 17HS8401.
There's 17HS with more torque, but it's difficult to find, and not realy necessary for a reprap.

Q bis : Each machine have its own needs. For some machines 0.5Nm nema 17 motors are enough, for others it's not enough.
Each machine needs its own studdy.

Q4 : (It's MKS not KMS ) With the SBase you can use any stepper motor rated under 2.2A.
The nominal voltage of the motor (and its maximum voltage) and the board powering don't have to match.
The higher power you will use for your board (within 12-24v), the better.
Because heating will be quicker and motors will respond faster.
The drivers will brings what motor needs anyways.
BUT you will need matching heating components (24V heatbed, 24V heating cartridge...)

Q5 : Actualy the best heatbeds are silicone ones.
For PCB style, the MK3 have an aluminium plate, it conducts heat better and allows to install a proximity sensor for bed leveling.
Any MK2B works fine for any printer, whatever the colour of the PCB. They're realy unexpensive.

Q6 : If you want a bowden extruder, go for a Lite6 alike.
For a direct drive, you can choose an E3D V6 alike or a Hexagon one.

++JM

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2015 03:52AM by J-Max.