32 bit board with 3 extruders

are there any other 32 bit board with 3 extruders on board?

been looking around, all I found are dual extruder onboard, other than RADDS which I already have and having some problem with it

I am not aware of any others that have 6 drivers as standard. The Duet 0.6 can have 2 additional stepper drivers if you add the Duet Shield. Both the 0.6 and 0.8.5 Duets can have the DueX4 expansion board added to provide 4 additional drivers. For the Duet WiFi, the DueX2 and DueX5 expansion boards will soon be available - with TMC2560 drivers supporting up to 256x microstepping, just like the ones on the Duet WiFi.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

guess I just stick with RADDS for now so

Cohesion3D Remix
32bit with Smoothieware and 6 drivers
[cohesion3d.com]

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PartTimeRonin
Cohesion3D Remix
32bit with Smoothieware and 6 drivers
[cohesion3d.com]

What i find very interesting is that Cohesian3D Mini board

@ DC42, you may remember my old discussion about such a board, take a look at that, when you remove that K40 specific stuff and add a 5th extrusion option and do some other optimization to your Duet you would have a perfect Ramps successor board with 32 Bit.

Chri

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[chrisu02.wordpress.com] Quadmax Intel Delid Tools

What is a K40?

Duet WiFi now supports up to 7 extruders. For more than 2 you need to add either the DueX2 or DueX5 expansion board, or hook up a stepstick driver to the expansion bus as a few people have done. I agree that for those wanting to drive a Diamond or similar hot end, it would be more convenient to have all 6 stepper drivers on board.

That Cohesion board looks interesting, but is expensive for a board with no onboard drivers and that doesn't include a proper web interface (the blurb says that the wifi module just provides serial-over-wifi, so you can forget about uploading files over it at anything resembling a decent speed). I would never choose a board with plug-in drivers, because it is impossible to cool them properly, difficult to set the current, and you can't do standstill current reduction.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2017 05:59PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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dc42
What is a K40?

Duet WiFi now supports up to 7 extruders. For more than 2 you need to add either the DueX2 or DueX5 expansion board, or hook up a stepstick driver to the expansion bus as a few people have done. I agree that for those wanting to drive a Diamond or similar hot end, it would be more convenient to have all 6 stepper drivers on board.

K40 is a cheap chinese 40W CO2 Lasercutter.

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That Cohesion board looks interesting, but is expensive for a board with no onboard drivers and that doesn't include a proper web interface (the blurb says that the wifi module just provides serial-over-wifi, so you can forget about uploading files over it at anything resembling a decent speed).

Not all people do require, WLAN
Not all people do require 3 to 6 Extruders
Not all people do need ethernet
Not all people need 1/256 stepper driver
Not all people do need a web-interface
Not all people do need such a huge snackboard
There are people who want to drive stronger (external) Stepper drivers on their machines.
There are people who don`t want to fiddle around with lots of other stuff they don`t need
There are people who want to upgrade their existing machine to 32 bit software (most of them have only 1-2 extruders)
There are people who want an open easy to configure 3D printing optimized software

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I would never choose a board with plug-in drivers, because it is impossible to cool them properly, difficult to set the current, and you can't do standstill current reduction

For sure it may not be the most optimal solution, but there are ten thousands (or hundred thousands) of printer running since long time with no issue, it just works, so thats no real reason.

Ì just don`t understand why you think this possible group is not worth of getting noticed of as like they are a minority.
That users are way much more possible customers for as you may think of, you don`t see the oppunity ?

Chri

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2017 12:29AM by Chri.

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[chrisu02.wordpress.com] Quadmax Intel Delid Tools

Quote
Chri
Not all people do require, WLAN
Not all people do require 3 to 6 Extruders
Not all people do need ethernet
Not all people need 1/256 stepper driver
Not all people do need a web-interface
Not all people do need such a huge snackboard
There are people who want to drive stronger (external) Stepper drivers on their machines.
There are people who don`t want to fiddle around with lots of other stuff they don`t need
There are people who want to upgrade their existing machine to 32 bit software (most of them have only 1-2 extruders)
There are people who want an open easy to configure 3D printing optimized software

There are lot of different variations on what people need from a 3D printer controller board. Small companies with limited resources such as Escher3D and Think3DPrint3D can't realistically address all segments of the market. Also there are different service models:

* You can copy someone else's design (so little or no development cost), manufacture boards as cheaply as possible, provide little or no support, and no comeback if the design turns out to be flawed.

* You can spend a lot on developing innovative and reliable hardware, continuously improve the firmware, manufacture the electronics to high quality standards in the west, offer good support, and have a returns policy that gives the customer the benefit of the doubt.

Escher3D and Think3DPrint3D use the second model. So we can't hope to compete on price with people like MKS who use the first model. This in turn means it makes more sense for us to target the upper end of the market, and not to use plug-in drivers because of their very high support costs.

Nevertheless, we are looking at options for making a lower cost controller board, better than the existing Duet 085 in a few ways but more basic in other respects.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dc42
There are lot of different variations on what people need from a 3D printer controller board. Small companies with limited resources such as Escher3D and Think3DPrint3D can't realistically address all segments of the market. Also there are different service models:

* You can copy someone else's design (so little or no development cost), manufacture boards as cheaply as possible, provide little or no support, and no comeback if the design turns out to be flawed.

* You can spend a lot on developing innovative and reliable hardware, continuously improve the firmware, manufacture the electronics to high quality standards in the west, offer good support, and have a returns policy that gives the customer the benefit of the doubt.

Escher3D and Think3DPrint3D use the second model. So we can't hope to compete on price with people like MKS who use the first model. This in turn means it makes more sense for us to target the upper end of the market, and not to use plug-in drivers because of their very high support costs.

Nevertheless, we are looking at options for making a lower cost controller board, better than the existing Duet 085 in a few ways but more basic in other respects.

I totally agree your points, thats also a reason why i don`t buy MKS Boards.
I understand that high quality hardware has its cost because development and support has also to be count in, i never said you should make a cheap board for 20 bucks (MKS SBASE actually is sold for 16 $),

So you already have done alot of development to make a great board (Duet 085/WIFI), so developing a "stripped" down version should not be as much work anymore as a completly new board (thats a benefit for you !)
What i mean is not that you should go and develop a cheap hardware but a piece of hardware that is for a different target group of users (the not so enthusiast ones)
Just one for a reasonable price cost, for example when i look at the TMC2660 chips, they cost around 4$ per 500 piece batch, so saving 20 $ (plus parts for them that are not needed anymore)
Also think about that people who have already Stepper drivers can use them again, so for them it`s an indirect cost saving.

My thoughts, of a new "entry" Duet board that may be very success full would be something like this.

12-24V IN
5x Socket for external extruders, Microstepping configureable over firmware
3x Endstops (what for are the E0 E1 Endstops on the Duetwifi for ? )
3 Temp Sensors (1x Bed 2x Hotend Thermistor)
2x Hotend Heater 1x Bed Heater
2x PWM Fans (or 3 if there is space left)
2x always on Fans (12V)
(1x 5V connector)
LCD Connector
2nd SD Card connector (for Display SD Card ? )
PanelDue connector
Connector for LAN OR WLAN Module (option) this also has the benefit of placing it to a more optimal place at the printer.
Probe Header
PT100 & Thermocouple header (would give UM2 users the opportunity to upgrade their printers easily)
No expansion X2 / X4 header (to not competit with the duet Wifi)
more compact design

Chri

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[chrisu02.wordpress.com] Quadmax Intel Delid Tools

Chris, I agree that your specification looks reasonable, except for the plug-in drivers with their high support costs and also higher total costs when you factor in the connectors. I'm not sure that dual extrusion is worth including in a budget board because few people use it.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dc42
Chris, I agree that your specification looks reasonable, except for the plug-in drivers with their high support costs and also higher total costs when you factor in the connectors. I'm not sure that dual extrusion is worth including in a budget board because few people use it.

In which way do plug in sockets rais the "support costs" (whats meaned with support costs ?, and the 8pin plastic connectors that normally cost below 10 cent per piece cause higher cost than mounting a TMC2660 ?
5h Stepper can also be used for dual Z stepper motor, i think the additional cost from 4 to a 5th socket should not be that large.

Chri

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2017 05:32PM by Chri.

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[chrisu02.wordpress.com] Quadmax Intel Delid Tools

Reasons why plug in drivers have high support costs:

- They are much less reliable than onboard drivers, for a variety of reasons, even if you get well-made drivers. I was given some figures a while ago from an OEM who switched from plug-in drivers to Duet, it was something like 5 times the failure rate for the plug-in drivers.

- Many users find it too hard to set the motor currents correctly. They end up with overheating drivers (too much current), or missed steps (too little current), or they short the drivers out while adjusting the pots.

- The current setting is not only harder, but more critical because the lack of good cooling means the maximum current available without overheating the drivers is lower.

Support is expensive. If you are going to offer good support, you need to minimise the number of things that can go wrong and maximise the chance of a non-expert getting everything right. Twiddling pots to set motor currents was ok when only geeks built 3D printers, but has no place now.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Okay i understand your concerns.

On the one side:
socket driver would make the board in production less expensive(also had talks with other electronics guys), because no cost for drivers, less faulty boards at production
also lower overall cost for the customer who can use his old drivers
you probably reach more customer this way.

on the other side
higher secondary cost because of stepper driver returns, additional stock, support time.
you could also sell them without drivers, but that probably doesn`t work so good with the overall satisfaction goal of the customer you want to.
less sales due to higher price / smaller target group (4 drivers only)

to the 5th extruder, i read something about a new method to get good dual extrusion results here at the forum latley (can`t find the thread atm) where the feature may be implemented to reprap firmware, this would also be a reason to add a 5th driver


the question is what $ will stand on the bottom line of calculation this two variants, for sure there are alot of guy`s out there who don`t know alot about printing, but there are still alot of geeks out there who want tweak and test on their machines as well

Chri

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[chrisu02.wordpress.com] Quadmax Intel Delid Tools