Darwin v1.0 Release

Hey all,

The recent debates on the list spurred by the museum stuff got be a
bit bummed so I didnt do much yesterday. It pains me to see
infighting, however minor. That being said, lets look forward and aim
toward fixing the mistakes of the past. I love this project and I
think what you guys are doing here is amazing. This is something I
want to share with the entire world. I dont give a crap about fame
nor fortune. Rather, I want to see this radically amazing technology
bloom and flourish. However, we definitely need a solid plan and we
need to know the steps we need to take in order to achieve that plan.
We're close guys... lets not lose sight of how far we've come when
we're so close to v1.0.

Here is a short list of what I can think of that we need to do to take
it to the next level.

- Electronics
-- Finalized board designs
-- Prototype boards made / tested (as in from a PCB manufacturer)
-- Bulk board orders made
-- We need a single source stepper supplier that is tested and verified
-- We also need a single source extruder motor supplier (i'm still not
sure if i got the right motors... i just want a simple, straight 'buy
this' answer here)

- Mechanics
-- Someone needs to document darwin in the wiki from top to bottom.
How do you construct it, how does it work, what are the steps you do
in order to create it. What are the gear sizes, etc.
-- We need a kit for this too, or at the very least a list of
suppliers for the gears / rods / threaded rod / belts / etc.
-- Getting the prototype darwin running should be the TOP priority.
Support heads are something that we can push back to v1.1. There are
people out here without machines that would love to help make a
support extruder, but they CANT without a machine.

- Extruder
-- The documentation on this is very good. It could definitely use
some updating with whatever current modifications you guys have done.
The new motor supplier falls under this.
-- We need some parts kits made up for this too. Someone with access
to a machine shop would really help for the extruder nozzle parts.
-- We have pretty solid suppliers of thermoplast now which is awesome.

- Software
-- We really need to find / recruit someone to help us out with the
installation stuff and making it easier. Right now it is a bit
confusing. This just means getting some testing in place, and getting
someone highly motivated to document it thoroughly and work out bugs.

- Community
-- We're doing really well here. We have forums that are getting a
good amount of use, and we are getting new people in and helping on
the wiki.
-- If we want to succeed, we'll need to learn how to harness and gain
from people who want to help. That means not turning away anyone who
can help.

Basically what I'm saying here is that we need to become extremely
focused on Darwin and get that out the gate. I would suggest that we
either volunteer for 'ownership' of areas of the TODO list or that
Adrian assign people as managers of those areas.

Once we get Darwin done, we need to get it out in the wild. If we
apply the darwinian evolution metaphor to this project... we're doing
horribly. We only have 3 or 4 members of the species. If we want
them to flourish and grow, we need more numbers. If someone comes on
the forums and says 'how do i build it', we need to be able to point
them to somewhere where they can buy everything they need, find out
how to assemble it, and then find things to do. Its really not that
difficult, but it does require coordination and cooperation from the
group. We can do it!!

Sorry about the novel,
Zach
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Zach - this is a really useful list.

People seem to be forgetting recently that I have been consistently saying that
our release date was going to be 2008. The reason I said that is because I was
sort of taking account of all below...

Zach Hoeken wrote:

> - Electronics
> -- Finalized board designs
> -- Prototype boards made / tested (as in from a PCB manufacturer)
> -- Bulk board orders made

We want some, but a bulk order? Better to direct people to a friendly supplier
so they can buy direct, surely?

> -- We need a single source stepper supplier that is tested and verified

I think we have that. [www.farnell.com] are worldwide, and the stepper is
their part ?????

Ah. I put it on [reprap.org], but
that now seems to have been edited :-)

And also [reprap.org] seems to have
gone...

> -- We also need a single source extruder motor supplier (i'm still not
> sure if i got the right motors... i just want a simple, straight 'buy
> this' answer here)
>
> - Mechanics
> -- Someone needs to document darwin in the wiki from top to bottom.
> How do you construct it, how does it work, what are the steps you do
> in order to create it. What are the gear sizes, etc.
> -- We need a kit for this too, or at the very least a list of
> suppliers for the gears / rods / threaded rod / belts / etc.

Yes - this is top of Ed's and my list. We hope to start it in a few weeks when
we've got it working.

> -- Getting the prototype darwin running should be the TOP priority.
> Support heads are something that we can push back to v1.1. There are
> people out here without machines that would love to help make a
> support extruder, but they CANT without a machine.

OK - but I don't think that we should call a machine without a support extruder
a release, because without a support extruder it won't be able to make all it's
own parts. Our first release has got to be able to replicate.

> - Extruder
> -- The documentation on this is very good. It could definitely use
> some updating with whatever current modifications you guys have done.
> The new motor supplier falls under this.

I'll do that.

> -- We need some parts kits made up for this too. Someone with access
> to a machine shop would really help for the extruder nozzle parts.

Yes - Bath U. can do that too. I'll get a pile of bearings, screw drives and
nozzles made up.

> -- We have pretty solid suppliers of thermoplast now which is awesome.
>
> - Software
> -- We really need to find / recruit someone to help us out with the
> installation stuff and making it easier. Right now it is a bit
> confusing. This just means getting some testing in place, and getting
> someone highly motivated to document it thoroughly and work out bugs.

Installation is separate from development. I agree that the install isn't
straightforward and needs improvement. And we do need to document the s/w. But
I've spent a lot of my life developing software, and the one thing that really
can slow things down is having too many people helping...

But what do others think?

> - Community
> -- We're doing really well here. We have forums that are getting a
> good amount of use, and we are getting new people in and helping on
> the wiki.
> -- If we want to succeed, we'll need to learn how to harness and gain
> from people who want to help. That means not turning away anyone who
> can help.
>
> Basically what I'm saying here is that we need to become extremely
> focused on Darwin and get that out the gate. I would suggest that we
> either volunteer for 'ownership' of areas of the TODO list or that
> Adrian assign people as managers of those areas.
>
> Once we get Darwin done, we need to get it out in the wild. If we
> apply the darwinian evolution metaphor to this project... we're doing
> horribly. We only have 3 or 4 members of the species. If we want
> them to flourish and grow, we need more numbers. If someone comes on
> the forums and says 'how do i build it', we need to be able to point
> them to somewhere where they can buy everything they need, find out
> how to assemble it, and then find things to do. Its really not that
> difficult, but it does require coordination and cooperation from the
> group. We can do it!!

Yes - we now know that it is technically possible, so we can!

As I said, I think that Zach's list is most useful. Let's say that we'll give
it a week for people to volunteer, then I'll start dishing out tasks.

Yours

Adrian

[staff.bath.ac.uk]
[reprap.org]

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great. i think we're on the same page, but there are a couple things
to touch on:

On 3/13/07, Adrian Bowyer wrote:
> Zach - this is a really useful list.

thanks.

> People seem to be forgetting recently that I have been consistently saying that
> our release date was going to be 2008. The reason I said that is because I was
> sort of taking account of all below...
>

yes, but i think we can and should aim for an earlier date even though
we dont announce it publicly. underpromise, overdeliver =)

>
> We want some, but a bulk order? Better to direct people to a friendly supplier
> so they can buy direct, surely?

yes, and what i'm saying is that supplier should be one of us and that
it would be nice to do it under the umbrella of reprap / a reprap
nonprofit. i'm willing to put the money up for it regardless, but it
would be nice to have the blessing of the group.

if we dont do this bulk order then people are back to making their
boards, or ordering from a pcb manufacturer directly (which is MEGA
expensive and confusing)

>
> I think we have that. [www.farnell.com] are worldwide, and the stepper is
> their part ?????
>
> Ah. I put it on [reprap.org], but
> that now seems to have been edited :-)
>
> And also [reprap.org] seems to have
> gone...

aye. it seems to have been lost. i'm very sorry about that. for
some reason the wiki page is broken too... i'm trying to revert back
to v1.8 of that page. any idea on what the motor should be?

>
> Yes - this is top of Ed's and my list. We hope to start it in a few weeks when
> we've got it working.
>

fantastic!

>
> OK - but I don't think that we should call a machine without a support extruder
> a release, because without a support extruder it won't be able to make all it's
> own parts. Our first release has got to be able to replicate.
>

i agree that a support extruder is required for a full machine.
however, do the parts that make it up currently require support
material? can they be coaxed into not needing one somehow? if we get
the extruder head + machine out into the wild, there are plenty of
things people could do - including contributing to a support head that
wouldnt require having a support extruder.

i'm not saying its not important... just that this is something that
could be left off and still leave a usable machine.

v1.0 - cartesian robot + thermoplast extruder
v1.1 - cartesian robot + thermoplast extruder + support extruder.

>
> Yes - Bath U. can do that too. I'll get a pile of bearings, screw drives and
> nozzles made up.
>

excellent! it would be very nice to get those hard to make parts in a
kit for people without a machine shop.

>
> Installation is separate from development. I agree that the install isn't
> straightforward and needs improvement. And we do need to document the s/w. But
> I've spent a lot of my life developing software, and the one thing that really
> can slow things down is having too many people helping...
>

agreed. i was a bit unclear, but i was referring to the documentation
rather than the software. =)

>
> Yes - we now know that it is technically possible, so we can!
>
> As I said, I think that Zach's list is most useful. Let's say that we'll give
> it a week for people to volunteer, then I'll start dishing out tasks.
>

cool. i'll put the list up on the wiki and then people can put their
name under areas they are interested in leading. that will be done
after i get off work =)
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