G32 indicates warped glass

While doing initial axis compensation on an Ormerod 2 the G32 response on web interface looked a bit odd so I repeated the G32 test several times to see if it was repeatable.

The height averages for each of the position are:
Position 1: 0.197
Position 2: 0.080
Position 3: 0.121
Position 4: 0.749

I'm assuming that the units of height in the G32 response are mm.

After a bit of analysis to see how far position 4 is "out of plane" it looks as though it's 0.5mm out of the plane represented by the other points.

This would be outside the precision that the Ormerod 2 is supposed to provide.

Its firmware version 1.09.

Am I just too fussy? Does this indicate a problem? What should I do about it?

FYI the repeatability on each point was better than 0.04.

Looks like your Y axis is twisted, i.e. the two Y smooth rods are not parallel. There are already threads on how to correct this.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Adjust the 2 inner bed level screws so the bed is perfectly level as seen from the nozzle in the inner position

Run the nozzle out to the outer corners of the bed, any difference in these corners (while moving the nozzle in the plus minus y-direction) is caused by the outer y-rod, this misalignment if any, is mirrored in the outer bed corners

Use nozzle measurements to adjust the y-axis-end-plates so as the rods are at the same hight in both ends

Erik

Thanks for this.

How do I find those threads? I've tried searching for "twisted" and "parallel" but neither search found anything.

By the way, what's the best way to find the posts that I have sent? I only registered for this forum yesterday and when I came on today it took me a while to find my post.

Quote
DaveGray65
Thanks for this.

How do I find those threads? I've tried searching for "twisted" and "parallel" but neither search found anything.

By default the search facility only looks for posts in the last 30 days. Using the Advanced search facility, search for "twisted" again, Ormerod forum only, posts in the last year.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Also see my post here: [forums.reprap.org]

Quote
DaveGray65
Thanks for this.

How do I find those threads? I've tried searching for "twisted" and "parallel" but neither search found anything.

yes and thats the problem, to find the right words to search for, and none of those words was in e.g. this string about the problem

[forums.reprap.org]

Quote

By the way, what's the best way to find the posts that I have sent? I only registered for this forum yesterday and when I came on today it took me a while to find my post.

you can tag "follow topics" in your account settings - or search for you name, the internal search is not very useful, but you can use your favorite internet search engine to make a search for you name (without the []) on this site only

"DaveGray65 site:[forums.reprap.org]"

..but feel free to ask questions, this site would be boring without silly answers :-)

Erik

Quote
ormerod168
..but feel free to ask questions, this site would be boring without silly answers :-)

Indeed!

If you want you can use my Modified fix for Twisted rods ,its a remix of Fotomases Idler.

[www.thingiverse.com]

And that works? What if the other side has to be pushed down?
As I am "designing" my new Ormerod 2 I am really considering now if I should use this part for my project Ormerod 2 but I am not getting it yet fully if this is the solution. The original offers also a springed version but now clue how the hinge and the spring has to be connected and what kind of spring to use and so on.

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Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Thats why i modified it, i didnt know what spring to use. As for if it works: it takes quite a lot of fiddeling with both sides to get it right(atleast for me) if you are lucky you will not have to touch the motor side. But if it does not fix it if you adjust the side with the idler , you will have to take off the stepper motor and adjust this side and reasemble the motor and then the idler side again.

I have not completely solved it(twist is off by 0.1mm) but better then the 1mm i had before.

My motor bracket is too deep. the bottom side is somehow 1mm deeper than the aluminium.
Why you did not use the hinge from the original y-idler tension? So I would have to reprint a new hinge.

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Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Becouse i did not have the source file. I have printed it(the one withought the tensioner) and used a caliper and reproduced it in solidworks and added a more suited way to tension the belt(atleast for me). If you are going to use this idler i suggest u try tightening the belt and see if it drags on the acrylic part. If it does file the holes a bit.

Now you got my wrong a little bit.
I meant this idler respective the remix for the Ormerod 2:
thingiverse
As this part is very common as belt tensioner and your part is nearly the same.
By the way I have printed the legs. It was not easy and I had to use Slic3r for slicing as otherwise the hole size was only 11.5mm. The strange thing is that this was the only a problem with hole sizes and affected only this part so far.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2015 06:16PM by Treito.

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Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Yes i think i got the idea from thatone. Sorry i didnt really intended to share it so i made it by my specs. but it works well for me so i thought i'd put it on thingiverse.

By the legs you mean the acrylic parts? Or the ant vibration stands?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2015 06:22PM by Darathy.

The idea is good, but affecting this thread also there is definitely a height difference regarding the y-motor-bracket and the y-idler.
My front legs from thingiverse has some hooks and on the left side these hooks came out of the aluminium especially the upper one. Regarding the twisted rods problem I put the hook back to where it belongs and now the front leg cannot reach the buttom.
As I put the y-frame upside down I could see that the y-idler-part is straight with the aluminium but the motor bracket part is roughly one mm to deep.
Now I am getting why we have this twisted rod problem...

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

This is definitely a designing issue. The motor was aligned with the upper side of the aluminium bar. The aluminium bar has a height of 40mm and the motor 42mm. that is exactly the height difference I can measure. Fixing this is not easy as it affects also the acrylic parts. I will add some 2mm height bed-plates. One at the y-idler-bracket and one at each foot front.
Here are some pictures showing the problem. I hope it is okay as I did not place any kind of spot and it is still dark here.

The motor side:


At the other side:


Most of you would align the right foot in a way that the printer stands stable and the twisted rods problem is born.The front of the left foot has to stay away from the ground but in this case the printer does not stand stable. Also extending the left side would not solve the problem as the front of the feet would be too high and the printer either would tip forward or the front of the feet would hang in the air.
At the moemnt I have no quick solution.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2015 12:57AM by Treito.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

I also had this problem with my Ormerod 2 could not get the front of the bed level so I designed an adjustable replacement for the acrylic part that is adjustable and allows you to lift / lower the front Y rod using the adjustment screw this finally sorted the problem and I can now level the bed and no longer need to use the bed compensation at all. Think it my also be compatable with the ormerod 1 but ive not looked at the design of the acrylic parts.

it can be found here Y rod fix Thingiverse

Apologies for the long delay in thanking you all for replies to the string that I started. It's taken me this long to work out how to find my own posts! Today I got here by using advanced search to search for my username. Regarding the G32 problem, my work-around is to enter the G32 results into a spreadsheet that tells me how far out I am and then briefly pressing down on the rear rod. the end of the rod that I press on depends on whether the spreadsheet result is positive or negative. G32 is entered again and the process is repeated until I'm happy with the result. Most recently the "out of plane" error was 0.02. This suggests that I have screw loose. I must do something about that!

0.02 mm? That would be more than acceptable and inside measuring tolerances. There would be only a problem if you have more than 0.08 mm. But even 0.1 mm is not a real problem in my eyes, but this would be the maximum allowed deviation. But 0.08 mm is fully acceptable. I would be happy if I could reach nearly such kind of deviation. Maybe the new one is getting better and if so I will exchange the y-axis of my MK1 to the new one.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.