I don't get out of the beta status...

Quote
smartfriendz
ho boy ... tha'ts bad . I really didn't know it could be a problem those 6mm

sorry about that . .. I will have a look how to re-integrate the all 8mm version . It doesn't change so much for me .

thank you for your feedback by the way. it's very interesting

I am also mounting away from the metal linear bearings. Although cheap and easy to get, they are very noisy and don't last that long as expected. After only 100 hours of printing, many need to be replaced, some I have had to replace after only about 20 hours of printing. Apart from the noise, they also grab the rods and cause jerking that influences the quality of the print, often making the print fail as the problem gets worse.
Bronze bushes I found difficult to align, and also a bit more expensive. The best bushes are ones I have made myself for testing purposes, and these I have made from Delrin plastic. They take too long to make compared to buying ready made bearings or bushes, but for testing purposes they are ideal.
I will do further tests and see how long they actually last before committing to anything, but if they turn out to be better, I will see if I can get them CNC machined for a good price so we can all use them. (if anyone is interested that is)

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

so maybe i had good luck ? I've found a provider here in next village with smooth rods 6 and 8 mm steel at 4 euros/m of good quality, and after some tests, i've found a good provider for lm6uu and lm8uu on aliexpress. For now, i have good result even after 100 hours printing . I prersonaly hear more the steppers singing than the rods ( but it's very personal feeling i guess ? ) .

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the Smartrap project

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Maybe you really had a good supplier. I did't wanted to buy at aliexpress because of bad experiences with electronics. I see, you added on github new 8mm version, correct? What about a new allignment of the X axis rods? Instead of horizontally, vertically like the fabrap? Or did you have any special plans for the next version?

Quote
Xhnnas
Maybe you really had a good supplier. I did't wanted to buy at aliexpress because of bad experiences with electronics. I see, you added on github new 8mm version, correct? What about a new allignment of the X axis rods? Instead of horizontally, vertically like the fabrap? Or did you have any special plans for the next version?

I have tried turning the X rods 90 degrees and found an incredible difference to the good.
The rods turned that way give very much more stability and resist bending.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

To be honest, i didn't want to be too much like the printrbot but the real reason is history reason : at the beginning, i couldn't have the Z rods to be turned 90 because it made a base plate too big for the printer i had ( limited to 100x100 printing size). I know it''s crazy but it's true.
I think i will try to have a version like regpye did very soon.. it's obvious we get more stability on the axis we have forces ... in our case , the X axis with forces against Z down !

about the 8mm, i maintain this version for the first kits ..and of course for anyone who prefer 8mm rods.

I just cleaned up github very hardly ! only the last version stays now ( old version are accible via history).

I will use a dev branche for next version.

Smartrap V2 should be completely different . I would like to have the bed not moving and still a good support for the head to be able to develop multi heads , seringe for food , laser cut, etc...

let's design

---

the Smartrap project

[smartfriendz.com]
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[reprap.org]
[github.com]
doc assemblage: [reprap.org]
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Quote
smartfriendz
To be honest, i didn't want to be too much like the printrbot but the real reason is history reason : at the beginning, i couldn't have the Z rods to be turned 90 because it made a base plate too big for the printer i had ( limited to 100x100 printing size). I know it''s crazy but it's true.
I think i will try to have a version like regpye did very soon.. it's obvious we get more stability on the axis we have forces ... in our case , the X axis with forces against Z down !

about the 8mm, i maintain this version for the first kits ..and of course for anyone who prefer 8mm rods.

I just cleaned up github very hardly ! only the last version stays now ( old version are accible via history).

I will use a dev branche for next version.

Smartrap V2 should be completely different . I would like to have the bed not moving and still a good support for the head to be able to develop multi heads , seringe for food , laser cut, etc...

let's design

Already working on all of that Serge. Could be a bit exciting to see what we can all come up with.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

Quote
smartfriendz
Smartrap V2 should be completely different . I would like to have the bed not moving and still a good support for the head to be able to develop multi heads , seringe for food , laser cut, etc... let's design

Are you thinking about a coreXY - "Smartrap style" - or something else? I have been giving some thought to coreXY type my own self, with the #1 design criteria being ALL printed parts have to be printable on my Smartrap.

On a personal note, sorry I haven't been around more, got really busy with other stuff as well as the FreeCAD project, and there are only so many hours in a day... Just a shame there are only 24 of them, I would be happy with something like 32 or so... Good to see you all are doing well.

@ regpye - Did you do anything with that 2 into 1 hotend setup?

Mark

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From FreeCAD To The Real World- Demo video using FreeCAD and featuring the Smartrap 3D Printer

hi mark ,

It's good you've been busy ! I know freecad takes you a lot of time and everyone must be happy of your energy in the project

yes, beeing printable is no 1 . I even think about even more printable and less extra parts . I've always said there must be at least one project like this as the others went all to metal . I understand perfectly why of course and it's really normal they do . They call me crazy to insist at doing a reprap with lot of printed parts ( hard to produce, long, not enough rentability ).

I'm working on two separate main design things : 1- scara arm , like morgan but all printed with pinions 2- core xy , with all printed too, a little like the tantilus, but more efficient in parts . I admitt i try to have a box structure so it's easy to handle . Maybe we will loose print size at first.. nothing is certain of course, i must go forward with the design.

One extra domain related to the smartrap passionating me is the printed parts production with smartraps farm. I do believe it's reliable, if you have enough machines running .

I hope this new version will be made in freecad. I start to understand it far better. I'm still have a bad experience on changing sketches constraints after a part is finished. It always makes me some problems but i don't really know why .

---

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[reprap.org]
[github.com]
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Quote
smartfriendz
hi mark ,

It's good you've been busy ! I know freecad takes you a lot of time and everyone must be happy of your energy in the project

yes, beeing printable is no 1 . I even think about even more printable and less extra parts . I've always said there must be at least one project like this as the others went all to metal . I understand perfectly why of course and it's really normal they do . They call me crazy to insist at doing a reprap with lot of printed parts ( hard to produce, long, not enough rentability ).

I'm working on two separate main design things : 1- scara arm , like morgan but all printed with pinions 2- core xy , with all printed too, a little like the tantilus, but more efficient in parts . I admitt i try to have a box structure so it's easy to handle . Maybe we will loose print size at first.. nothing is certain of course, i must go forward with the design.

One extra domain related to the smartrap passionating me is the printed parts production with smartraps farm. I do believe it's reliable, if you have enough machines running .

I hope this new version will be made in freecad. I start to understand it far better. I'm still have a bad experience on changing sketches constraints after a part is finished. It always makes me some problems but i don't really know why .

1- scara arm - Very cool, but it might be better to lift the arm rather than lower the bed? Lift from the center on 3 vertical rods, maybe go to 8 mm threaded rod. I'll have to look at the math for the things geometry but looks very doable. Should be able to get a 200x200x200(or 300) mm or more build area. Height would be the easy one to get on that design.

2- core xy - I'v been looking at this concept for several weeks now. Ran a few things around in my head. I saw this thread - Core XY Printer £100.00 Build Cost which got me thinking, (always dangerous ) I'm thinking one could get a 250x250x??? mm into less than a 350x300 footprint.

It's not crazy to want to follow the heart and spirit of the Rep-Rap idea. That's just making sense... OK that last statement is coming from a crazy person so....

There was a bug found in the Sketcher that is causing the constraints to lose their linking to external geometry. It's been reported and worked on. With any luck, we'll see that fix, along with a few others and Ellipse and Arc of Ellipse included in Sketcher in the 0.15 release, which should be coming sooner rather than later. I'll PM you a link to a thread where I posted a "work around" to that bug if your having to move holes around allot in a model. Look for it sometime tomorrow at the latest. I'll have to hunt it down.

Just an idea - If you want to, start a new "Smartrap V2 Development" thread where we can get all things sorted out. I know Reg has an ingenious and inventive mind, and I would love to here both of your thoughts, and others here as well, on a new design. Or just do both! Version 2 and Version 3. Have a whole Smartrap family.

Mark


Edit - Smartrap SLA 3D Resin Printer - Version 4 ! I'v been doing some research on this too...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2014 01:08AM by markstephen.

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From FreeCAD To The Real World- Demo video using FreeCAD and featuring the Smartrap 3D Printer

Honestly, CoreXY would be my favorite. But, I don't want to source every second version new parts for my printer (like I did with the upgrade from 0.4.6 to 0.4.9, thats the reason why I've two printers now)

Regarding the current build: My proximity sensor needs 6V -36V Input. Do you have any suggestions how to set it up with ramps? I can't connect it directly to the Z min endstop.

thank you for those feedback . IT helps to have a better view of what we could bring to the community ...and new 3d printers it's hard to decide, i think i will try all solutions before starting some shared thoughts about the design in a thread. But i want to do that for sure .. i would be very happy to have a design that is done from a community .. maybe try to find a real time shared 3d design software ? lol .

xhnnas, is it an inductive sensor ? i could manage to make some working with ramps on _5v .. it needs a 10k resistor. But almost half of mines even didn't work with that . I use some 12v pins to make them work with 2 resistors ( to ahve +5v on the signal line ) ..that works.

---

the Smartrap project

[smartfriendz.com]
[www.thingiverse.com]
[reprap.org]
[github.com]
doc assemblage: [reprap.org]
NEW: Forum smartfriendz: [smartraptalk.smartfriendz.com]

Quote
markstephen

Quote
smartfriendz
Smartrap V2 should be completely different . I would like to have the bed not moving and still a good support for the head to be able to develop multi heads , seringe for food , laser cut, etc... let's design

Are you thinking about a coreXY - "Smartrap style" - or something else? I have been giving some thought to coreXY type my own self, with the #1 design criteria being ALL printed parts have to be printable on my Smartrap.

On a personal note, sorry I haven't been around more, got really busy with other stuff as well as the FreeCAD project, and there are only so many hours in a day... Just a shame there are only 24 of them, I would be happy with something like 32 or so... Good to see you all are doing well.

@ regpye - Did you do anything with that 2 into 1 hotend setup?

Mark

Still working on it, hope to have it finished soon

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

Hi Guys,

Just to add my 2 cents here because I recently got the v4.9 with the 6mm rods. I noticed when looking at the older Smartrap versions that the drive to reduce cost and simplify the build has let to a less robust machine. I found an older Smartrap for 80 Euro and I bought it because it was such a bargain. I compared the build to my new Smartrap and I was disappointed that the older machine looks and feels a lot more sturdy than the newer machine. The bearings are bolted in place and the Z threaded bar is attached to the carriage securely. The rods are thicker and the axis seem to bend less.

With the latest design I have had the following problems, and its not down to the print quality of my parts because Serge printed them and they are top quality.

Y axis: The bearings are a push fit in the Y axis. I have lost 2 prints because the bearing slipped out of the holder and somehow slid along the steel rod. It cause a huge step in my print and in the end I fixed it by loosely placing a cable tie around the 2 bearings lengthways. There is no way at all to secure the bearings properly on the current build.

X axis: The head components fit on as a push fit. The push fit can work loose if the head collides with anything and you are not there to stop it happening (see below re Z axis). Push fit is great if you never ever have to rebuild the axis. A clamping fit would be much more reliable and add more strength to the machine, it also allows the machine to be rebuilt over and over again if needed.

Z axis: It seems to be a sliding fit, not even a push fit. The 6 mm rod clamp just sits on the motor shaft and there is no way to secure them together. Then half way up the threaded bar the carriage just sits on the Z nut and is not securely attached. If there is not enough weight on the carriage to engage the Z endstop the Z screw just keeps going until the Z nut ends up at the bottom of the screw and it leaves the head sitting on the glass bed. Even worse, somehow my threaded rod fell off the Z motor, don't ask me how. In fact, that's why I wrote this post because it just really annoyed me that a lost several hours worth of print because of such a daft thing.

In a nutshell, the Z threaded rod fell off the Z motor. The head then got stuck in my build while the X motor dragged the hotend back and forth for 20 minutes. When I got there, the X end was loose and all of the hotend components are bent because it has been under so much stress. I will have to get the hairdryer on it, glue it back on or print a replacement to solve the issue. Not ideal.

Don't get me wrong, the Smartrap is an awesome machine and I really love it. But a lot of the redundancy that was in the earlier designs seems to have been taken away to make the machine quicker and easier to produce and assemble.

That's my opinion anyway, it's driven by the current rage that I have over the failed print today so don't take it to heart. All criticism is positive as long as you consider it for the next build.

Anyway, keep up the great work.

Mike

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2014 03:32PM by mikefiatx19.

Hi greg,

thank you for this great feedback. I understand all your points and i agree with most of them . The thing is the development of the smartrap has been made a little too much in hurry for some months now. The main goal is indeed to make the most easy to assemble reprap while keeping a good quality , but until I take a little more time to re-thing more deeply, we will mostly turn around the same problems with this design. It means maybe we reached the end of it and it's time to switch to another one ?

On the defensive side, i can explain why those changes, it was not about money ( whatever i do with the structure, it cost me the same ) , it was more from user's feedback .

- 6mm rods : We switched to 180x180 mm printable size. I thought 8mm rods would be too heavy , as we move them in both axis X an Y. After some tests, even if the feeling is indeed less stable than 8mm, the prints didn't show a differernce.
- Z axis : I see you experienced a non working zstop and had a bad print. It is in faact quiet good on the precedent version with blocked nut in the Z plate, you would or break the glass , or break the all Xplate. I did 4 or 5 times and it's fast ! nema17 on a screw has nice power ..enough to break a PLA structure. So this new system has the benefits to save the material IT is also an anti wobble system, so the vibrations in X and Y of the thread are notreported to the head. I noticed better prints with layers since we have this system.

The fact is , even if the quality of parts was good, the dimensions wasn't the "insert guides and done" system is great but need a very precise holder dimension .. too small and dit brakes, too large and the guides are out.

I can only advice you to find some tape, aluminium, or hot glue ? ( you can always get it out ) to fix the bearings , waiting for a next design. On the very last version, i've made the holders higher and inserted an M3x10 to fix them more tight.

Thanks again for those point of view, we can only go forward this way

---

the Smartrap project

[smartfriendz.com]
[www.thingiverse.com]
[reprap.org]
[github.com]
doc assemblage: [reprap.org]
NEW: Forum smartfriendz: [smartraptalk.smartfriendz.com]