First time reprapper

so, I've been looking at 3D printers for a while now and trying to make the seemingly impossible decision of what to go for! At first I settled on some of the 'off the shelf' solutions such as Printrbot, but then I discovered reprap and realised that you pay way too much for surprisingly little with the printrbot!

The criteria i've set myself is to have a build area in the region of the printrbot, if not better (so, 150mm³), and also the ability to upgrade in the future. I'd like to start with a heated bed but if the price is right I'd happily just pay for the upgrade in the future. the possibility for multiple extruders is also a necessity. I'm looking for maximum quality and reliability where possible, and the machine that will (in the end) give that with the least fight!

The machines I'm focusing on at the moment are:

• Prusa i3 variants (the BQ hephestos has a good build quality it seems)
• Ormerod 2
• Mendel 3
• The new delta fisher (and possiblity look into adding cherry pi III features in future, which looks like an awesome printer!). It also seems to me like fate that just as I need a good budget 3D printer, with similar specs to that of the printrbot, that this should appear!
• Richrap 3DR delta printer

I'm trying to keep the budget as close to £400 as possible, the Ormerod and Mendel go over this, but if the cost is worth it I may just have to wait and save for longer, or source someone to print the parts to lower costs.

Any advice in this area would be great! I'm new to all of this, but I consider myself a fast learner, and not a plonker, so I should be able to understand most stuff! (I hope)

@Origamib

You can probably build a Prusa i3 or any of its variants either from a kit or buying separate components for less than £400, and building one is a great learning experience by itself. The design is very well documented and even though there are always variations in build quality, the final printing quality usually stays way above the "acceptable" level. It is a more than proven design.

Personally I have seen very few delta's successfully built as a first 3D printer built, imo they add a lot of complexity to the build and calibration processes and these seem to me as an obstacle for first time builders. In the case of the RepRapPro model, the design is still in beta and so again, I do not advise a beta design for a first time builder. It also lacks a heated bed, and I am not sure what kind of stepper motor is included in the kit, as no assembly manual has been published (I am not even sure the design is Open Source actually - it's not on their github, even though it should be since it is clearly a Kossel Mini derivative).

If you decide on a Prusa i3 variant I strongly recommend the P3Steel.

I have an Ormerod 1 and a Kossel (originally a Mini Kossel, but now enlarged). The Ormerod 1 works well and has dual extrusion - although I had to upgrade several parts to get the best out of it - but the Kossel works better, and prints faster for the same print quality. I am a firm convert to delta printers.

Quote
AndrewBCN
Personally I have seen very few delta's successfully built as a first 3D printer built, imo they add a lot of complexity to the build and calibration processes and these seem to me as an obstacle for first time builders. In the case of the RepRapPro model, the design is still in beta and so again, I do not advise a beta design for a first time builder.

I don't agree that delta architecture adds complexity to the build - IMO it simplifies the build because you are mostly building the same thing three times. The Fischer uses Duet electronics and my fast single-iteration auto calibration code, so calibration will be quick and easy. Getting 32-bit electronics, with Ethernet and a web interface, included for that price is amazing value. Sure it's a beta, and I expect the design will evolve; but RepRapPro has a good reputation for supporting their kits. They are committed to open source and I am sure they will publish the design details and manual when they start shipping - in about 4 weeks according to their web site. The most obvious disadvantage of the Fischer is the lack of a heated bed, but several folks on the Ormerod forum are already talking about putting a Mini Kossel heated bed in it. As for multiple extruders, I suspect the only possibility on the Fischer would be a switching extruder because of the limited space.

The Fischer would be great for learning about delta printers without the pain of manual calibration, but after a few months you might find yourself going on to build yourself a Kossel or Cherry Pi using the same electronics, in order to get a large print volume and dual extrusion.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2015 11:56AM by dc42.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dc42
I have an Ormerod 1 and a Kossel (originally a Mini Kossel, but now enlarged). The Ormerod 1 works well and has dual extrusion - although I had to upgrade several parts to get the best out of it - but the Kossel works better, and prints faster for the same print quality. I am a firm convert to delta printers.

I don't agree that delta architecture adds complexity to the build - IMO it simplifies the build because you are mostly building the same thing three times. The Fischer uses Duet electronics and my fast single-iteration auto calibration code, so calibration will be quick and easy. Getting 32-bit electronics, with Ethernet and a web interface, included for that price is amazing value. Sure it's a beta, and I expect the design will evolve; but RepRapPro has a good reputation for supporting their kits. They are committed to open source and I am sure they will publish the design details and manual when they start shipping - in about 4 weeks according to their web site. The most obvious disadvantage of the Fischer is the lack of a heated bed, but several folks on the Ormerod forum are already talking about putting a Mini Kossel heated bed in it. As for multiple extruders, I suspect the only possibility on the Fischer would be a switching extruder because of the limited space.

The Fischer would be great for learning about delta printers without the pain of manual calibration, but after a few months you might find yourself going on to build yourself a Kossel or Cherry Pi using the same electronics, in order to get a large print volume and dual extrusion.

This is along the lines that I was thinking to be honest! I have read a few opinions on deltas / cartesians, and the end result seems to be the same after you spend time tinkering. Calibration is harder, but speed improved on the delta (especially with duet electronics). This is why I included quite a few different designs in my list due to the controversy!

I will most definitely be improving whatever machine I get to be the most it can be, My main question is what will be the best to upgrade to get a good repeatable build quality? Some of the Prusa i3 variants seem good, but lacking vendors in the UK! they also lack duet electronics, so surely that will limit whatever upgrades I want in the future

First time user make a simple choise

prusa i3 or omerod ( prefer the prusa)

tripod printers are no go for a first timer, its difficult to configure, more difficult to calibrate etc etc.
Mendel 3 please no this design with the rods is outdated and has a lot of shortcomings.

future fit for the long run maybe not but you can start printing with it and lateron replace for example the electronics for an upgrade.... or with your new knowledge build a printer yourself

My suggestion as being a first time 3D printer buyer myself, try the Folger Tech 2020 i3, it went together very well. The price isn't too terrible, $270 USD for the printer. The 2020 extrusions make for a great way to expand as your needs grow. And from browsing Thingiverse, there are some readily available options for upgrading and adding features.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2015 12:26PM by Devil Inc.

Quote
Weedz
tripod printers are no go for a first timer, its difficult to configure, more difficult to calibrate etc etc.

Only if you use old electronics and firmware. Configuration and calibration are very simple using Duet electronics and firmware, as included with the Fischer kit.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I went with a Rostock Mini over a Prusa i3 for my first (and so far only) printer. While I believe a delta style printer will be a much easier build then an i3, the calibration afterwards to get decent, consistent prints is a bit of a headache and I really don't recommend it for a first printer.

If you have a budget, it seems like a lot of i3 kits are available for around $300 US right now. They are cheap, you get what you pay for, but I think it is an excellent way to get your feet wet. As you learn how the printer works, most of the "vitamins" for the printer can be transitioned to your next printer.

If you want to stick to your original budget though, don't rule out printers like the Printrbot Simple. Although it is more of an entry level printer, its fairly reliable, has great support, and should get you printing sooner than the low end kits. I also believe there are more than a few decent kits in Europe to choose from in that price range.

For your second printer though (yes, you will want more then one), a Kossel or Cherry Pi III is definitely a good choice. You will have the knowledge to buy the parts you need, allowing you to source better components like a 32-bit controller (I have my eyes on a Duet with DC42's firmware someday) and quality hotends from hotends.com (original j-head) and E3D based on your needs.

Thanks for all the great advice so far guys!

Folger Tech is a great option, but not really available in the UK. Also, the budget is not that constrained as £400 is about $600, So there is no need to go for $300 budget machines I think

so upon narrowing down the choices a metal Prusa i3 kit from eBay is around £400, whereas an Ormerod 2 will work out at £500.
For all the benefits that brings it seems like a no brainer to go for the Ormerod... Better electronics, better quality items (Lead screws for example).

So, the next question I suppose is do I go for a Delta fisher, or an Ormerod 2?

How sturdy is the Ormerod? It seems to me that the path to a high quality reliable printer is all in the frame (which a cheap Prusa kit lacks), does the Z and X axis design of the Ormerod lead to instabilities that would not be seen in a more boxed frame printer?

I understand that the Delta fisher is a sturdy little bit of kit, and a lot of design has gone into it which will hopefully help to overcome any frustrations which may be found in a Beta version .... Maybe it is best to go for this option, and use the money saved to go on to printer number 2? (such as a Core XY design which I've been eyeing up for a while...)

All opinions welcome anyway!

Ormerod 2 or Fisher, it's a difficult choice. The Ormerod 2 has larger print area and can be upgraded to dual extrusion, so it will probably last you longer before you outgrow it. The Fisher will cost you a lot less, leaving more budget for your next printer. It will probably also be easier to set up to get accurate prints. Against that, as it is a beta it may have a few mechanical teething problems, and you may end up paying some extra money to implement the changes that RRP make in the production version.

My first printer was an Ormerod 1, and my second was a Mini Kossel. I upgraded a few parts of the Ormerod to overcome deficiencies in the original design, but all but 2 of those upgrades would not be relevant to the Ormerod 2 because the deficiencies have already been addressed. I upgraded the Mini Kossel to Duet electronics. In the end I wanted a larger build area than either printer offered. It was the Mini Kossel that I chose to tear down and rebuild as a larger machine, because I found it more stable than the Ormerod, it printed almost twice as fast as the Ormerod, and a delta takes up less space because of the non-moving bed. Details of my large delta build will appear on my blog soon.

So my advice is to go for the Fischer, and plan on building a larger delta in the future - or a CoreXY if that still takes your fancy.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2015 06:12PM by dc42.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].