New - Makerbot Replicator 2

Dark Alchemist Wrote:
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> Sublime Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Pazu Wrote:
>
> > Actually you know nothing. I am a stay at home
> dad
> > because a lot of us in the modern don't want to
> > keep the 1000 year old stereo type of "man
> bring
> > home food" "women cook it" bulls**t. I have
> only
> > been pointing out that all their PR is complete
> > crap like all big business. They no longer care
> to
> > make a good product when they can just tell you
> > its good and then charge you later to fix it
> and
> > that is disgusting. It is the OLD way that has
> > brought us to this point in society where most
> > people hate their lives and there are more
> > homeless in the world then happy people. And I
> did
> > tell them about the mistake, but they filtered
> the
> > comment until others commented the same thing
> and
> > now they have changed what it says. No sorry
> for
> > the mistake but just change it and pretend that
> no
> > one notices.
> >
> > What is your problem with me? I only have
> pointed
> > out 100% true things. No lies like they have,
> no
> > bullshit PR, just the truth.
>
> Well I applaud your sense of breaking out of the
> status quo of what roles each sex is "supposed" to
> have but I disagree with you about quality. Want
> to see quality in electronics? Look to the 1930's
> through the 1960's when workmanship was where it
> was at (this is pre Taiwan made crap then Chinese
> made even worse crap). Big businesses figured out
> how to screw us all over by building everything
> with planned obsolesce but not because something
> better came along but because some capacitor made
> in a One Hung Lo plant makes crap and big business
> knows it is crap but they use those crappy caps
> knowing they will last until shortly after the
> warranty then you are on your own where most
> consumers will buy the next thing and our
> landfills fill up faster each day.
>
> edit: Don't sweat people man they are some real
> wipes around and no one knows who has what agenda
> or attachment to what.

I agree with you completely but I am unsure what you are referring to when you say " but I disagree with you about quality". The quality of prints? Of manufacturing? Of service? Those are the only things I have talked about MBI quality.

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FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

I was just talking about quality in General but it goes back to manufacturing. I still remember the 1970's and 1980's where Made in Taiwan was a horrible term and if you had tools with that on them they probably would break at the worst time whereas Made in America, or Germany, or Switzerland, or even Japan they would handle more than you could throw at them. Now made in China means it is pure junk to end up in our dumps.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Dark Alchemist Wrote:
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> I was just talking about quality in General but it
> goes back to manufacturing. I still remember the
> 1970's and 1980's where Made in Taiwan was a
> horrible term and if you had tools with that on
> them they probably would break at the worst time
> whereas Made in America, or Germany, or
> Switzerland, or even Japan they would handle more
> than you could throw at them. Now made in China
> means it is pure junk to end up in our dumps.

That is completely un-true. If the only things you buy from China are the ones that are 1/10th the price of one made in Japan you should expect it to be low quality. You can buy really well made stuff from China that costs the same as stuff made in other places, but you don't. When you buy made in China you refuse to buy the expensive one and go for the cheap one and then are pissed off it was crap. The exact same thing happens in North America and Europe etc. If you look for the cheapest supplier you will get the crappiest thing. So peoples views and expectations of made in China are the problem.

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FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Don't take up for China and its craptastic goods as that isn't going to fly with me.

So, I call BS to your un-true remark. What quality item has China ever produced? Hell, even their scud missiles suck ass and that is about as technological as one could get.

Want quality? Go to Japan, Switzerland, Germany, and even the USA but you sure in the hell stay away from the Chinese.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Dark Alchemist Wrote:
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> So, I call BS to your un-true remark. What
> quality item has China ever produced?

You mean like Huawei fixing Cisco's bugs (after being their OEM) by rewriting their OS then one upping them with their routers?
Or like Lenovo making IBMs laptops for years while everyone was raving about their reliability?
Or maybe Up!?
Or perhaps ZTE, currently 5th largest telecom equipment supplier in the world?

I won't even mention all the OEMs that stand behind most companies people never even think of as "chinese".

The Chinese are not good at thinking outside the box and they even freely admit it. They love, it is what they do best, to take an original idea and work with it but if you expect them to design on their own something you will be waiting a while and it will probably not work right or work for long. They are the masters of copying or as the rest of the world says the stealers of everything.

Notice:

You mean like Huawei fixing Cisco's bugs (after being their OEM) by rewriting their OS then one upping them with their routers?Not original they took what was already made so not original.
Or like Lenovo making IBMs laptops for years while everyone was raving about their reliability?Again, not original.
Or maybe Up!?Not original.
Or perhaps ZTE, currently 5th largest telecom equipment supplier in the world?See anything from them that is original? I sure don't.

Seems most of Asia has this issue where they can play the game via rote but it is the non Asians that have the ability to see a problem and can handle something that would broadside them. I work with India a bunch and I can tell you they do not deny that as long as it can be by script they will perform fine but if it takes a free self thought type of transaction you better find another place for your call center. This is why a lot of call centers have come back to the states because the customers demanded it as they refused to talk to them and China is not so dissimilar. It is in their upbringing and if you doubt that look at one of their classrooms where freedom of thought is punished at an early age and don't you even think about arguing a topic with a teacher over there and you are the student as you might not like what follows.

So, I am sure there are some Chinese on here but it doesn't matter I stand by my assertions backed by working with them and watching them over the decades.

Off the subject but I love how China has absolutely no pollution controls as I have seen the pictures of their industrial areas and if you can see the people in them they are wearing surgical type masks due to the smog that California in its worst year would look like a fresh spring day. If China is all that and a bag of chips why aren't they taking care of their own pollution to take better care of their citizens? Oh, and fudging the numbers to make them look better and getting mad when the US caught them is not a good way to be.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Again, enough with the thread hijack and personal insults/ethnic smears/generalisations which amount to nothing more than personal opinion/bias/xenophobia/outright racism.

Dark Alchemist, relax, stop feeling like such a victim. Every thread I read which has a comment from you seems to end in an argument; it's really getting tiring. Accept other people, rightly or wrongly, have opinions different from yours, and that personally insulting people to try and get your point across does you no favours. If you could moderate your language to be less caustic and confrontational, people may be more responsive to your viewpoint. It's the subtle art of persuasion, backed up by facts, perhaps even references and statistics. I'm not going to argue with you on this, as this is my firmly-held opinion.

I apologize if I offended anyone but I am not a socialist, nor a communist and I never will be and the things I said I know to be true from my own work with the nations I mentioned.

If you, or anyone else, was offended I did not wish to offend but I get pretty riled up when it concerns socialism, communism or the junk I see filling up our land fills each day coming out of the country I mention (not counting all the lead in even food).

So, please accept my apology and get this thread back on track.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2012 12:21PM by Dark Alchemist.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

This is a forum about 3D Printing not politics and bickering go somewhere else if you want to do that. You want to talk about 3D printing stay.

In more exciting news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There has been a great disturbance in the 3D printing force (Yes it has its own special type of force). The arrogance of Makerbot has cause a new foe to appear I give you our new champion!!!


Form Labs

Silence falls.

The Silence Wrote:
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> This is a forum about 3D Printing not politics

Everything is about politics from what Pettis did to the food you put in your mouth.

> and
> bickering go somewhere else if you want to do
> that. You want to talk about 3D printing stay.
>
> In more exciting
> news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> There has been a great disturbance in the 3D
> printing force (Yes it has its own special type of
> force). The arrogance of Makerbot has cause a new
> foe to appear I give you our new champion!!!
>
>
> Form Labs
>
> Silence falls.
That looks like it crawled up out of the 1950's and is one ugly beast.

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_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

That formslabs piece looks really good - insanely better than the replicator2 at a similar price point.

I wish them luck!

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- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

To me it is ugly but it intrigues me too. Like those Airstream rvs from the 1950s. As far as price goes I hope someone knocks MBI out of the park and they have to close down. I know people will say it is an omg failure and that isn't good for us all but I contend that their success means more harm to the open source world, especially after they decided to leave it, than their bust.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

I hope I didn't offend you Dark Alchemist (I did see your initial response, and wasn't going to reply - glad you reconsidered and edited it), I just think it is easy to misunderstand how people represent themselves on forums, and then it quickly becomes a shouting match, with petty and ridiculous comments. I generally don't say anything on here that I wouldn't say in a business meeting with a client (or, perhaps, in front of my mother), and generally try and be as positive as possible about what I do say. If a conversation descends into bickering, I don't feed the trolls. I am quite open-minded, and hope that other people are open to new ideas, but I'm old enough to realise that people are often very set in their ways. Sensible points in discussions on internet forums are often drowned out by a load of noise. I find politics, religion, sex and money are best talked about face-to-face!

Anyway, back to the 3D printer talk. I think the formlabs printer is interesting, it's the first resin-stereolithography printer to come out that's even vaguely close to being affordable. It will go down really well with designers, architects and the people who like making figurines - the detail on these sorts of printers is generally very high. Quality of reprap/FDM prints has always been an issue with the layman. The price comparison with the Replicator 2 is really interesting too; I would love someone like Wired to do a comparison of the two. However, stereolithography is not without it's problems. The main one being the cost of the resin, which is about 3x the cost of filament (1L of resin is $150, 1KG of filament is approx $50). Also, I'm not sure how strong the resin models are once printed. Anybody know?

The real problem that faces both formlabs and perhaps more challengingly Makerbot, is what do consumers actually want a 3D printer for? Are artists, designers, architects and engineers enough of a market to sustain turn-key printers? (The rest of us just build our own.) It's still difficult to come up with a sensible, mass-market reason to have a 3D printer. We're still waiting for our 'killer app'.

I am actually easy going and not easily offended especially in the world of bits.

I agree with your points about 3d printer and as much as I want one I do ask myself why do I want one. I know I can print a few off hand things but Lord knows I don't need more knick-knacks and bric-a-brac around my house.

What I really wanted was one to change the paradigm for the planet but I was naive because RepRap is not at the level of quality and speed one needs to cause a paradigm shift. Now if the price you pay to make a RepRap is what a powder printer would cost as well as the resources being comparable then I believe the shift could happen. I know someone will bully in here grasping their RepRap to their chest and shouting that change is happening now but I must ask you to step back and look at the 7 billion people on this planet and tell me that change is truly happening. It isn't nor do I suspect it will for an extremely long time if ever and not by an Adrian Bowyer RepRap until many changes take place (generation 99 perhaps?).

So, it is a valid question and I think for most people the answer is they will use it like a toy for awhile then it will sit in a corner somewhere having the dust and cobwebs of neglect all over it.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

There is no comparison between the printers

Replicater 2
XY resolution= maybe 3mm
Z resolution= 0.1mm

Form Labs

XY resolution= 0.3mm!!!!!
Z resolution = 0.025mm HOLY SHIT!!

I rest my case, and I could give a f**k what it looks like as long as it can print like that.

If you're talking about putting the self-replicating means of production on everyone's desk don't be surprised when some anti-capitalists show up. ;-)

The Silence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is a forum about 3D Printing not politics and
> bickering go somewhere else if you want to do
> that. You want to talk about 3D printing stay.
>
> In more exciting
> news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> There has been a great disturbance in the 3D
> printing force (Yes it has its own special type of
> force). The arrogance of Makerbot has cause a new
> foe to appear I give you our new champion!!!
>
>
> Form Labs
>
> Silence falls.

The Silence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I could give a f**k what it
> looks like as long as it can print like that.

You're a hacker so of course you don't care but as I have said before the mass consumer does care and they care more than I wish they did but without the mass consumer taking one of these and running with it this will never make the changes to society and the world that it should, or at least that I had hoped.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2012 08:12PM by Dark Alchemist.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Does the Replicator 2 move things on? I don't know. I've had a 3D printer for over 1.5 years now. I feel lucky I have one, I like making useful things. I have designed bits and bobs, fixed lots of little things around the house, and printed over 20 reprap kits, and printed lots of upgrade and prototype parts for my reprap, and have been paid to design and print various parts for other people. However, I agree with Dark Alchemist - though there's a lot of media coverage of the potential for 3D printing to 'change the world', it still hasn't hit critical mass, and probably won't in it's current form - there's just too high a barrier to entry. It needs something to move it on. The home computer didn't take off until Visicalc came to the Apple II, then everyone could see the point, and it still took 25+ years and the internet to get one in nearly every home. Reprap is a visionary project making the technology far more accessible, and spurred on a lot of people to improve the design. I greatly admire Adrian Bowyer for his work (I've met him, had a half-hour chat with him, staggering intellect), but even he hasn't come up with the game changer. What does he print? More repraps. I don't blame him for that; no one else has come up with a better thing to print either. I would say if you know you need a 3D printer to do a specific job, buy a Replicator 2 or one of the other professional 3D printers that meets your criteria. If you just kind of like the idea of 3D printing, and are happy to treat it as a hobby or intellectual amusement, build your own. Otherwise, wait.

The Silence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no comparison between the printers
>
> Replicater 2
> XY resolution= maybe 3mm
> Z resolution= 0.1mm
>
> Form Labs
>
> XY resolution= 0.3mm!!!!!
> Z resolution = 0.025mm HOLY SHIT!!
>
> I rest my case, and I could give a f**k what it
> looks like as long as it can print like that.

The Form 1 looks really cool, but I can't get one in 4-6 weeks, AFAIK, like a Replicator 2. Also, I don't know how they define "resolution."

For RepRaps and the R2, it's tough to specify resolution based only on mechanical features, given that a blob of molten plastic is deposited by a 0.40mm (or whatever) nozzle. I don't yet have a 3D printer but it seems to me that ultra fine positioning resolution is rather moot, given the design features employed in the technology.

From the Makerbot R2 brochure specs.

Positioning Precision:
XY: 0.011 mm
Z: 0.0025 mm

Layer Resolution Settings:
High 0.100 mm
Medium 0.270 mm
Low 0.340 mm

-Cal

I was recently asked to build a jaw bone at short notice, the surgeon needed it asap as he was operating the next day,
I did it and it was collected, the sense of doing some good to help others is far more valuable than anything else I can imagine,
so if you are looking for a game changer, why not have a network of printers where the medical world can get models to help them before surgury, also I was asked some time ago to help a woman who had had an eye removed, this was bad enough but she hated going out as people starred at her, why not develop a 3d printer to make prosthetics for such people.

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Random Precision

I love that johnrpm. Thumbs up.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

There is no comparison between an extruder based 3D printer and stereolithography. This might help clarify what I mean by resolution. I mean print resolution. Even though the replicater has a nozel that is 0.4 mm it cannot print a single feature that small. But the form labs printer can print a feature that small. And that is just on the X and Y plane. The layer height on the Z axis for the replcater 2 is 0.100mm, for form labs it's 0.025mm, 4 times the resolution. The numbers you put up for the replicater 2 for positioning are utterly worthless when printing. Just because the replicater 2 is able to move it's z bed in 0.0025mm incriments, dosen't mean it's able to print at that height. It can onlt print at a layer height of 0.1mm. Which makes me think you either know nothing about 3D printers or are aspokesman for makerbot trying to confuse people about resolution, so they make the poorer choice by buying the makerbot. Which is it?

So I'll say again there is no comparison

Replicater 2 (The Loser)
XY print resolution= maybe 3mm
Z print layer resolution= 0.1mm

Form Labs (The Winner)
XY print resolution= 0.3mm!!!!! (10X the replicater 2)
Z print layer resolution = 0.025mm HOLY SHIT!! (4x the replcater 2, making layers essentially invisible to the naked eye)

calinb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Silence Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There is no comparison between the printers
> >
> > Replicater 2
> > XY resolution= maybe 3mm
> > Z resolution= 0.1mm
> >
> > Form Labs
> >
> > XY resolution= 0.3mm!!!!!
> > Z resolution = 0.025mm HOLY SHIT!!
> >
> > I rest my case, and I could give a f**k what it
> > looks like as long as it can print like that.
>
> The Form 1 looks really cool, but I can't get one
> in 4-6 weeks, AFAIK, like a Replicator 2. Also, I
> don't know how they define "resolution."
>
> For RepRaps and the R2, it's tough to specify
> resolution based only on mechanical features,
> given that a blob of molten plastic is deposited
> by a 0.40mm (or whatever) nozzle. I don't yet have
> a 3D printer but it seems to me that ultra fine
> positioning resolution is rather moot, given the
> design features employed in the technology.
>
> From the Makerbot R2 brochure specs.
>
> Positioning Precision:
> XY: 0.011 mm
> Z: 0.0025 mm
>
> Layer Resolution Settings:
> High 0.100 mm
> Medium 0.270 mm
> Low 0.340 mm
>
> -Cal

Dark Alchemist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what Pettis did
> to the food you put in your mouth.

Pettis did something to my food? D:

orcinus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dark Alchemist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what Pettis did
> > to the food you put in your mouth.
>
> Pettis did something to my food? D:
Yeah, didn't he help make The Cupcake? LOL.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

"This is a forum about 3D Printing not politics and bickering go somewhere else if you want to do that." ... "The arrogance of Makerbot has cause a new foe to appear I give you our new champion!!! "

You're aware of the utter hypocrisy of your post, right? Especially in light of your blatant commercialism in promoting another company

The Silence Wrote:
> The numbers you
> put up for the replicater 2 for positioning are
> utterly worthless when printing. Just because the
> replicater 2 is able to move it's z bed in
> 0.0025mm incriments, dosen't mean it's able to
> print at that height. It can onlt print at a layer
> height of 0.1mm. Which makes me think you either
> know nothing about 3D printers or are aspokesman
> for makerbot trying to confuse people about
> resolution, so they make the poorer choice by
> buying the makerbot. Which is it?

Neither, but I guess you didn't read my post very carefully and comprehend my assertions:

> For RepRaps and the R2, it's tough to specify
> resolution based only on mechanical features,
> given that a blob of molten plastic is deposited
> by a 0.40mm (or whatever) nozzle. I don't yet have
> a 3D printer but it seems to me that ultra fine
> positioning resolution is rather moot, given the
> design features employed in the technology.

From the prints I've seen, I believe the resolution of a printed feature can be somewhat finer than the dimensions of the print nozzle orifice. This is because it is possible, by adjusting-down and controlling the rate the plastic is dispensed, to deliver less than "a full blob" of molten plastic. However, I doubt that features significantly finer than the size of the nozzle can be printed.

BTW, the Form 1 build platform is too small for my needs, the printer is scheduled for delivery next year, and it is significantly more expensive than the R2. I'm very interested in the Form 1, but I don't even think it warrants a comparison with the R2 at this time. By the time the Form 1 is shipped, the 3D printing world will have changed again--maybe even a couple of times!

Presently, an R2 vs. Form 1 comparison is like comparing apples and oranges!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2012 02:10PM by calinb.

There's some confusion here.

The Replicator and Replicator 2 are printed to by the same software, as they're basically the same machine (metal frame, fan, print bed, different, but same electronics and basic technology). The GUI can be either ReplicatorG (FOSS Java) or MakerWare (proprietary GUI based on QT). MakerWare is a GUI that lets you pick things to print, and enter some print parameters (layer height, material, etc.), which ships them off to Conveyor, which is FOSS. Behind that, both MakerWare and ReplicatorG use either Skeinforge or Miracle-Grue, both FOSS. ReplicatorG can also run Slic3r. So all of the software that does the real work is FOSS. Note in particular that MBI did a lot of new development (Miracle-Grue and Conveyor) by starting new FOSS projects in github, open to anyone, so they're clearly not trying to close everything about their printers, but just the branded UI. Not as friendly as if it was 100% open, but 95% open is still more open than almost any other company, and the 5% gives them some legal protection from someone simply shipping copies of their printers and software, with no R&D investment. As a small company selling into a tight-knit community "don't be lame" is sufficient defense, but as 3D printing is growing into a mass market, they probably felt that they needed a little more protection, particularly given that someone tried to do exactly that a few months ago.

I saw both Formlanbs and Replicator 2 last weekend @ the Maker Faire, and they're both amazing printers, but quite different.

Formlabs is beautiful engineering, with a laser exposing UV sensitive resin, so the print quality is amazing, but it's very, very slow and very, very expensive ($2,800). As in, it printed 0.1mm layers, about one layer a minute, so printing a small rook took hours. The result was stunning of course. But the printed resin feels quite soft, so you wouldn't want to handle it much - perfect for lost wax style casting or display items, not for things to use. And the costs were high - about $200 per liter of resin, so 5-10x the cost of ABS or PLA. I think that jewelers and artists will LOVE the Formlabs printer. In terms of FOSS, it's utterly proprietary - the printer, the resin, the software, etc., was all proprietary. And no Mac support (yet). And you have to print from your computer connected live to the printer. Formlab is an MIT spinoff, and clearly has money. The printer was beautiful, the display was beautiful, etc.

The Replicator 2 prints just PLA, huge print area, and amazing quality prints (much better than the other home 3D printers). I suspect that he metal frame helps a lot, and the fan and PLA are sharper than the ABS prints from the Replicator.

The B9 printer was also pretty cool - very similar to the Formlabs printer, but cheaper ($1,600). Instead of a laser it has a DLP projector, so the resolution is video pixels while the Formlab printer uses the laser to draw vectors, which (kinda) gives better resolution. And it only printed orange, while the Formlabs printed grey or (soon) clear. In contrast to Formlab, B9 is made from sheet metal with a DLP projector on a shelf pointing up. So nowhere near as slick. But the printed objects looked great, and that's ultimately what matters.

The Rostok printers were also pretty cool. There's a Kickstarter making injection molded arms, etc., and selling a kit. It wasn't as amazingly fast as I hoped - perhaps watching the Ultimaker spoiled me. But it's very cool to watch those three motors bob around.

Quote
laird
The Replicator 2 prints just PLA, huge print area, and amazing quality prints (much better than the other home 3D printers).

Thanks for the report. What exactly does "other home 3D printers" mean. It would be more helpful to be specific what you're comparing it to.

I don't see any of the issues you listed about the Formlabs printer being that much of a deal breaker. Is it more expensive than many of the filament based printers? Yep. Keep in mind, though, that Resin based printers used to be priced in the $10K - $20K price range so a complete printer @ $2,400 doesn't seem like an obscene price. The Replicator 2 is $2200 which is substantially more than the $800 I spent to build my MendelMax. I would also say that the print quality I have seen from the Rep 2 is not that much better, if at all, from prints I have gotten from my $1400 cheaper machine. That being said, I would gladly pay $200 more to jump to the level of quality that you get from Resin based printers.

Resins are kinda soft and squishy after printing. Resin cured objects often need to be "baked" under either a UV lamp or in sunlight for a while before they become fully rigid. After that they have roughly similar hardness properties to printed PLA.

Takes forever to print. Yeah, the price you pay for quality. It typically doesn't matter what industry you are in, the higher quality you want the final product, the longer it will take to fabricate. Same goes for my MendelMax at home. I can whip out a part in mere minutes with .35mm layer heights but will take SUBSTANTIALLY longer to print at .1mm layer heights. I would gladly wait hours for a part in which the layers are imperceptible.

It all comes down to what you want to use your printer for. I would consider paying the extra for the kind of quality this machine produces. While I can get good quality from my Mendel and I'm sure the Replicator can as well but they always look "printed"; you can never really get away from the stratified look without a lot of surface prep. I also think it looks very well engineered and is actually very interesting from a industrial design standpoint. I would love to have one of these printing away in our architectural office.