Awesome new 3D Printer - J-Rev

Quote
Japica3D
Just an FYI, the Eiffel tower is not from this Form1, it doesn't even look like it, if you would put on some glasses. Its actually a rendering, way to go idiots.

Sorry, this is an exact photo shopped copy from a Form1 print image. It is not a render.

Take a close look at the attached image, the position, lighting and color make it clear where your tower came from.

Instead of calling us "idiots", perhaps you could try just being honest?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2013 11:07PM by B9Creations.

@B9: Nice catch.

Funny how the perspective and highlights on the object match up *exactly* if it's "just a render"

Also, rendering a print like that is IMO way over the line of dishonesty - you are telling people that your printer can make that print when in fact it cannot.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2013 01:25PM by crispy1.

While i do see (many) issues with this kickstarter project i'm kinda suprised by some of the aggressive reactions. How about some constructive criticism instead of things like blatantly accusing someone of running a scam. No wonder their reaction is a bit hostile.

i could understand what you are saying but no matter what the product is there will always be people saying that it sux. you could have a goose that lays golden eggs and sell it for $5 and you would still have someone saying its stupid and a joke. I commend those people because they are excersizing their freedom to have an opinion as anoying as it may be. Coming back at that person as an owner of a company and calling them names as well as bringing their family into it is not the right way to conduct yourself as an owner. Well at least if you want to be successful. Instead take that opportunity to try and back up your products to show them that, 'hey this is a great product and ill show you why.' Opinions are like butt holes, everybody's got one and they all stink. But thats what makes a product better. Attacking your customer definitely wont sway thier opinions only solidify them in a negative manner. Its just bad business and a bad way to be as a person. As far as constructive criticism goes. There are no videos and no technical information on the build to critisize constructavly . Hence no constructive criticism. I hope their kickstarter does well but most of all I hope that their customers truly get what they payed for and not get misled or ripped off. Only time will tell if its a great product or a great scam.

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Banjer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While i do see (many) issues with this kickstarter
> project i'm kinda suprised by some of the
> aggressive reactions. How about some constructive
> criticism instead of things like blatantly
> accusing someone of running a scam. No wonder
> their reaction is a bit hostile.

Altruism is great, but these guys need to hire someone with marketing expertise, rather than relying on free advice from the internet. I really don't feel any obligation to help out their business - they will get the profits, so they should do the work.

If the printer was open sourced I might feel differently. I note they have been selling open source hardware, so they have been getting a free ride already.

These things are all about creating the right impression. It doesn't matter how long the printer has been running in the workshop, or how great it is on paper, if you can't show that to potential customers.

Showing faked printer simulations is a definite no-no, I would pull that immediately. They have a professional video showing lots of talking heads, it beggars belief that they can't find a video cam or phone to show the printer working. The obvious conclusion is that they don't have a working printer to show.

Does anyone else think that Tesla3D "Posts: 1" looks like a shill? That is another thing that creates a bad impression.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2013 07:03PM by bobc.

ya i noticed this post started from an account that only has one post and was started the day of the post and hasnt posted on his own topic since. Seems a lil fishy im inclined to think that Japica started thia post to draw attention to there bot. Well that kinda backfired. Its just way to many things that dont add up here.

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I wonder if it would be possible to create a printing friendly articulation of this actuator.
[en.wikipedia.org]

Maybe useful for a scissor or other setups too.. [tsubakimoto.com]

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2013 09:15PM by billyzelsnack.

Ive looked into scisor setups in the past, it would be cool to implement it into a design for the bed to lift. I dont know why it hasnt been done. They make lab lifts that would be the perfect size and all you would have to do is couple it to a stepper motor. That cable chain lift would also be a great idea to implement into repraps. Good lookin too.

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I first heard of Japica from 3ders.org.
Went to Kickstarter, saw the video, the fake Eiffel Tower, the wobbly gif of it rising and thought that they have some challenges ahead.
I like the people and the effort and don't envy their task: develop/refine/execute/deliver in the public eye, with 100 masters to serve.

They're tackling some pretty big stretch goals and I wish them all the luck.
The middle of the road concepts are easy-ish and they are definitely not in the middle.
Fringe ideas in my opinion.

I see flaws in my prints when my structure gets 0.010" out or expands from heat or any of a dozen "issues".
We all have a gut feeling about this one, but maybe there's room for them to get funded and deliver on that idea or most of it.

I think the kickstarter community is accepting of risk and wants to put money out into others hands.
Plenty of people shell out what they consider to be small amounts of money just to be part of the fun.

I see Reprappers as more frugal and wanting to invest in sure things, like when someone posts great innovation (Berrybot much?)
That guy is full of ideas, no team, no delusions of owning an island anytime soon.

Best of luck to you Japica Dream Team.

billyzelsnack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if it would be possible to create a
> printing friendly articulation of this actuator.
> [en.wikipedia.org]
>
> Maybe useful for a scissor or other setups too..
> [tsubakimoto.com]

This kind of mechanical jack works extremly well, but there is several issues for use in a printer :

- The original metal parts are expensive due to the precision needed in the plates (fine blanking) and rollers. The holes precision (diameter and position) is critical
- They cannot be printed for the same precision issue, but also because there is high pressure on the half holes and you need metal there.
- movement are smooth but speed is not strictly linear. Variation is small but exists.
- Those are big systems sized for lifting loads weighting tons.
- There is patents protecting those systems by the inventor (Serapid).

Another product by the same company would work (rigibelt) in term of precision and size even if oversized, but again the costs against a screw or belt driven system are too high. Those systems are adapted for when you cannot have guiding on the upper plate. The interlocking jaws are overmold on the belt so even if there was no patent, you cannot create a printable smaller version.

Forget about the zip chain it is discontinued afaik.

1) It will be difficult for you to get your Z axis to be as accurate as a conventional vertical linear rail. Two concentric bearing interfaces are not as accurate as one. This is just basic physics. Using 3D printed components for these parts makes things even worse. The part you claim to have printed (The Eiffel Tower) is a hard print to pull off with such a clean print as you have shown with no support. Showing a video of that type of mechanism doing that makes us think it's an April Fool. Remember there are many of us here have been trying to print something like that for years without success on much more sturdy machines.

2) Portability is not a major issue with 3D printers. Most stay in one place. It is unwise to compromise the quality of the print for the minor benefit of portability.

3) Using your young relations to defend your business is emotional blackmail and morally wrong. Please don't do it. This has nothing to do with them.

4) Don't make excuses that your computer broke and you had problems with windows and you are not very professional. To get investment, you need to convince people that you ARE professional, adaptable and can solve problems on the fly. Stating that you are nearly broke also doesn't inspire confidence. Try to highlight that you have a successful track record and that people can trust you with their money.

5) Dressing like one of the blues brothers is not a good idea (They were swindling criminals). A simple video of the machine producing a good part would be enough. If you can do that this community would be behind you 100%.

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Helium Frog Website

They've cancelled their kickstarter fundraiser.

they had a scathing comment to stay away, posted by Nick Parker.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2013 03:57PM by davew_tx.

I still can't believe they got posted on 3ders.org. I feel VERY certain we will not see a printing video of this printer design, ever, let alone next week.

Just watched the Kickstarter video again, it's just painful to watch. "we reinvented the wheel"!!

Can someone tell me just what is it about 3D printing that makes these types of people and 'companies' come crawling out of the wood work? It's getting old.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2013 04:32PM by Dirty Steve.

I feel bad for the people who got there money invested and will prolly never get it back. There are to many people that are scamming in the reprap community. I have a section im building on my wordpress blog called,'the good and the bad.' I want more people to post there good and bad experiences with companies. That way people will know who to and not to buy from. please feel free to post under the page labeld the good and the bad on the wordpress blog so we can get a list of peoples experiences together. So this doesnt happen again.

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It seems they didn't get a great reception on the Solidoodle forum either [www.soliforum.com]

Similar use of shill poster? There are some marketing tactics that can be called "creative" but some cross the line into "dishonest".

Ya I honestly think that this was a scam that didn't go the way they thought. It might not of started out that way but it sure ended up that way.

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Perhaps in memory of this complete fiasco of a design we should create a new verb or noun to help us describe projects in the reprap community.

To japica - A verb to describe when something is not as it seems or fails miserably.

Japica - an object which does not come up to expectations.

examples.

I began my print at 8.30, it ran for 2 hours then completely japicad on me.

The car I bought last week was a bit of a japica. I realised this when the wheels fell off whilst driving.

Please feel free to contribute to this important evolution of the English language.

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Helium Frog Website

Hasn't the japica website been around for a while though? I'm sure I've stumbled across it in the past.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Ya,

I bought my first printer from japica last year, like april ish. They were making prusa mendels at the time, but was totally cool. They made the printer all white, made me a 12x8 build area (First time I had seen a reprap over 8x8 build area), and to top it off, made me a dual head.. Was pretty cool, they went the extra mile to customize a printer for me. They even sent me free parts, plastic and other stuff we I was going to pay?! I have their JapicaBot right now, love it.

I love Japica, but it seems I made a mistake by trying and advertise their project.. Sorry guys :-(

Lol, I usually don't blog or whatever this is called?

Waylon T
LOVE THE NEW TESLA MODEL S

O ya, I forgot to add a few things

When I first bought from them, I wasn't too sure if I could trust them. It made it worst that they too like 6 weeks to build me the Prusa, and get it shipped (I guess that was the waiting time or something - was quicker than makerbot though.. lol) The whole time I thought they were gonna screw me, but the printer showed up and they even sent me free shit!?!

I highly doubt they were doing their kickstarter to take your money. I know they had been working on this printer since last year (They mentioned that they had a totally new design, but wasn't ready to release it//) and they seem to always give things their best.. It sad to see that they won't be in business anymore.. :'(

Anybody got a good place to get plastic? 3mm or 1.75mm?

Waylon T
LOVE THE NEW TESLA MODEL S

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2013 10:00PM by Tesla3D.

Tesla3D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ya,
>
> I bought my first printer from japica last year,
> like april ish. They were making prusa mendels at
> the time, but was totally cool. They made the
> printer all white, made me a 12x8 build area
> (First time I had seen a reprap over 8x8 build
> area), and to top it off, made me a dual head..
> Was pretty cool, they went the extra mile to
> customize a printer for me. They even sent me free
> parts, plastic and other stuff we I was going to
> pay?! I have their JapicaBot right now, love it.
>
> I love Japica, but it seems I made a mistake by
> trying and advertise their project.. Sorry guys
> :-(
>
> Lol, I usually don't blog or whatever this is
> called?
>
> Waylon T
> LOVE THE NEW TESLA MODEL S

Come on, we are not so stupid to believe such a poppycock story!

Sorry, but you've already been busted

Man they think we are dumb as can be don't they.

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Its not a story?

Waylon T
LOVE THE NEW TESLA MODEL S

Seems not every customer was so happy with Japica.

From Better Business Bureau [www.bbb.org]

Quote

On a scale of A+ to F

F Rating

Their ebay record isn't stellar either.

Ya, I actually found them through eBay. If I remember right, they told me they had a few negatives because paypal was screwing them over because they sold printers before they were made?

Waylon T
LOVE THE NEW TESLA MODEL S

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2013 10:26PM by Tesla3D.

Not to surprised well I can say I'm glad that the people on this forum are smart and willing to take the time to uncover the truth so no one else gets ripped off. I'm sure they will take a break from the industry and come back under a new name and try and rip off more people. What they don't realize is that they will be found out again. Also I must say that yes I do like the idea of using Japica as an word. Example: all the people who funded this kickstarter got japicad. I will definitely be using this as a term.

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Ya sure they always have an excuse for everything.

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Tesla3D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its not a story?
>
> Waylon T
> LOVE THE NEW TESLA MODEL S

I love how there's names for all these things... it's called astroturfing. A fake "grassroots" movement.

Lol, I get it know. Thanks for the clearing up bobc.

I just don't get the whole calling them a scam and fraud? Sure they were using renders and have been having issues, but doesn't every company have issues and use renders?

I see there was a lot of issues over them using the eiffel tower, but then again, if you actually look at Form 1 website, all there pictures are renders, yet they got a shit ton in funding? Microsoft uses renders, apple does, most any place does?

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Waylon T
LOVE THE NEW TESLA MODEL S

Here's a quick Demo I mocked up. Cleary their printer could not print this, its too tall... hmm

Here's a link to a higher res photo. doesn't look right when I post it on here (Pics don't resize?)

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2013 11:05PM by Tesla3D.

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Waylon T
LOVE THE NEW TESLA MODEL S