The 3D printed gun

Dark Alchemist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fact is I know I am not afraid of what you do but
> I am afraid of what the govt is going to do
> because you can do it.

Well, I share the same worry. A number of years ago, legislators in the UK were seriously considering regulating and banning private ownership of lathes because they could be used to make guns. It's very foolish to try to restrict technology out of the fear that someone could conceivably use it to do harm.

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[haveblue.org]

Have Blue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's very foolish to try to restrict
> technology out of the fear that someone could
> conceivably use it to do harm.

Yes, but politicians are very foolish as is evidenced every single day you see what laws they are trying to force on the people.

See, if that mindset was allowed to run amok we would not be allowed to have anything and might as well be in a padded cell because you can make a lethal weapon out of anything. I mean if they are so afraid of mass killings then they better shut down Home Depot and Lowes el pronto. Oh, and take down Ace/True Value, etc... as well.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

... this whole dispute around prohibiting tools/machinery usefull for making weaponry is in my opinion pure'political bullshit' to gather some interest or counts

I remember some DIY-projects years ago where scolars assembled railguns from scrap, build a wooden frame with hand-wound copper-coils on it -- and accelerated small metallic projectiles to 'serious' speeds, much higher than common 'fire-weapons' can produce

I knew a railgun used for 'demolishion'-tests of space-craft shielding, that produces speeds like 15 km/s in a vacuum-tube, before the projectile shoot through a thin aluminium foil on the target in some ten cm distance ...

But this railguns (and the needed PSU's) are mostly big enough, so you can't smuggle it in a plane

There are much more concepts for 'deadly' tools, that don't require a lathe, CNC-mill, 3D-printer or other highly sophisticated tooling ... it's the user, defining what's impact it will have

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

VDX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... this whole dispute around prohibiting
> tools/machinery usefull for making weaponry is in
> my opinion pure'political bullshit' to gather some
> interest or counts


Yep, pandering to the base. It will blow over in a while. Some may want to control the files or info to print these though in the US it's likely to be overturned if they do. Then the focus will shift to things like medical use and personal manufacturing. I posted a CNN link about a part to help a baby's respiratory system where the docs at University of New Mexico are working on making medical devices. The gun deal is due to the divisive nature of the issue and the politics of the subject.

Besides, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.......

so guys i made this gun that shoots a .380 acp from a pvc pipe and some regular pipe fittings... haha you could probably do that and it would work much better than any abs 3d printed gun.

Have Blue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dark Alchemist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fact is I know I am not afraid of what you do
> but
> > I am afraid of what the govt is going to do
> > because you can do it.
>
> Well, I share the same worry. A number of years
> ago, legislators in the UK were seriously
> considering regulating and banning private
> ownership of lathes because they could be used to
> make guns.

I don't believe that. Do you have any citations?

bobc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have Blue Wrote:

> > Well, I share the same worry. A number of
> years
> > ago, legislators in the UK were seriously
> > considering regulating and banning private
> > ownership of lathes because they could be used
> to
> > make guns.
>
> I don't believe that. Do you have any citations?

Nothing official that I've been able to find, but see this post from Felix in Scotland on practicalmachinist.com:
[www.practicalmachinist.com]

---

[haveblue.org]

aduy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so guys i made this gun that shoots a .380 acp
> from a pvc pipe and some regular pipe fittings...
> haha you could probably do that and it would work
> much better than any abs 3d printed gun.

Actually, I think an air powered soda can cannon would be pretty lethal. Maybe they should ban all plumbing supplies too.

SheldonE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, I think an air powered soda can cannon
> would be pretty lethal. Maybe they should ban all
> plumbing supplies too.

Certainly more lethal than the Liberator - a very simple spud gun can put out 400 Joules of muzzle energy, while I calculated the Liberator to be more like 66. And you can grow your own ammo

---

[haveblue.org]

Have Blue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SheldonE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually, I think an air powered soda can
> cannon
> > would be pretty lethal. Maybe they should ban
> all
> > plumbing supplies too.
>
> Certainly more lethal than the Liberator - a very
> simple spud gun can put out 400 Joules of muzzle
> energy, while I calculated the Liberator to be
> more like 66. And you can grow your own ammo
I am going to phone my congressman and senators immediately and demand, for all of our safety, to ban potatoes.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

No...

Ban

    Dihydrogen monoxide:

    •  is called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain.
    •  contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
    •  may cause severe burns.
    •  is fatal if inhaled.
    •  contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
    •  accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
    •  may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
    •  has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

    Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

    •  as an industrial solvent and coolant.
    •  in nuclear power plants.
    •  in the production of Styrofoam.
    •  as a fire retardant.
    •  in many forms of cruel animal research.
    •  in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
    •  as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

Be careful what you ask Congress to do - they might do it!!

---

Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse

Have Blue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dark Alchemist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > True, but a smooth bore does make it very hard
> to
> > trace the bullet back to that weapon if all
> > weapons were smooth bore. Besides, and I am
> not
> > 100% sure on this, but isn't the main reason
> for
> > the spiral carved bore to help the bullet to
> spin
> > instead of being tossed out of the weapon?
>
> You are absolutely correct - the forensic value is
> certainly a welcome side effect of the rifling
> requirement (but I thought the historical basis
> for the requirement was pretty interesting).
>
> And yes, the rifling is intended to actually bite
> into the bullet itself to provide gyroscopic
> stabilization. Muskets are really innacurate for
> this reason (and not because they fired a round
> ball - rifles of the time used a patched round
> ball as well, but the rifling made the projectile
> far more accurate).
>
> To answer the other question someone had - the
> rifling in the printed barrel seems to have no
> effect at all in this case. The barrel bore
> expands so much from the cartridge pressure that I
> don't believe the bullet actually touches the
> lands on the way out the barrel. This is also why
> we weren't seeing velocities over 500 fps.

uh oh 500fps the bullets wont make a sonic crack that should also make it illegal haha.

Another interesting tidbit, i think mostly these have been printed by law enforcement agencies to test whether it actually works or not.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2013 06:35AM by aduy.

Had a delivery of Dibond today. The delivery guy asked "what do you do with all this stuff?" I said that we make 3D printer kits. He paused a moment and said "3D printers, are they the things that print guns?"

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

what was your response?

I just said "yes" and left it at that as I wasn't on for a chat due to the fact it was their third attempt to get the order right and I had a week's worth of orders backed up because of it.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

thats messed up though, i want to make some 3d printed armour, that would offset this negativity towards 3d printers.

Only if it gets the same publicity, which is doubtful.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

@aduy: Are you so sure? I think it would be matter of perspective provided in media. Most likely they will say something like, "... so now criminals can have nice combo of weapon and body armor". Besides in some countries its illegal (or regulated) to posses body armor. You know, since only police can have guns, and since police is good, if they decide to shoot at someone, he deserves to die . So ordinary people walking on streets shouldn't interfere and should be "shootable".

that right there in my opinion is wrong, anyone should be able to have body armor. how can body armor be a bad thing, that's just ridiculous. that would be like saying, ok only the government can use cars, any regular citizen cant have a car because the government needs to be better?

Anyone?

[en.wikipedia.org]

aduy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> that right there in my opinion is wrong, anyone
> should be able to have body armor. how can body
> armor be a bad thing, that's just ridiculous.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

wow really your going to pull that up? clearly the shooters followed the law there.

let me lay it down for you:

first the one was a felon so it was illegal for him to have a gun at all

Second he modified several AKMs (using a drill press mind you) to become a fully automatic rifles

third they robbed a bank.

fourth they fired on officers.

so with all of those laws broken and you think making body armor illegal would have prevented this? The police department was unable to take them down because they didn't have any proper weapons. any police department should have at least a hunting rifle which could have easily penetrated the "body armor". and if they don't then a good citizen would have lent them one if they had asked.

You'e the one who said "anyone".

aduy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> that right there in my opinion is wrong, anyone
> should be able to have body armor. how can body
> armor be a bad thing, that's just ridiculous.

I'm just pointing out the possible misuse of such items. You know, the "wrong" hands.

[www.slate.com]

[www.usnews.com]


//Edit: links for context

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2013 03:45PM by akhlut.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Notice all of this is basically the govt vs the people. There is where the issue lies.

Revolution is coming soon if this mindset continues.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Yeah, you're right. So people need to stop distrusting the government simply because it suits their bullshit political beliefs. The US isn't Syria, it isn't Turkey, it isn't Russia, it isn't China. I'd really like to hear what rights you have that the US government tramples on every day. People in those countries don't have the rights that you take for granted every day. They live in tyranny, daily. There is no tyranny in the US except the tyranny of one's right to feel oppressed, even though it isn't true in the slightest way, shape or form.

Anymore, I see this "tyranny" argument boiling down to the fact that a "majority white" America is is a thing of the past. Now crackers are just the largest minority group, but they won't be for long (I get to use the word 'cracker' as I am a cracker). It's thinly veiled racism, wrapped up in the American flag and holding onto the second amendment and the bible. It's the new nationalism.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Distrust of the US govt is a good thing and one of the reason (the distrust of a govt in general) is why we have all of these rights in the first place.

Just take a look at the latest fiasco from the govt..."US gov't collecting huge number of phone records"

"Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., told reporters Thursday that the court order for telephone records, first disclosed by The Guardian newspaper in Britain, was a three-month renewal of an ongoing practice. The records have been collected for some seven years, according to Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev."

""I think people want the homeland kept safe to the extent we can," Feinstein said at a Capitol Hill news conference. "We want to protect these privacy rights. That's why this is carefully done in federal court with federal judges who sit 24/7 who review these requests.""

The problem lies in the fact that they can, and do, use this stuff however they wish once the NSA has it. To make us feel secure they trample over the rights of the innocents and we all, should, know wehat Benjamin Franklin said about that, right?
It is these sorts of things that are helping to fuel the govt vs the American people (I am not even going to get into the Europe mindset since Americans are not subjects) mindset I mentioned.

So, racism is just a BS card played out by an African American political hack that can't take people criticisming him. Fact is he is the first president in our entire history to use the hidden executive order over 1k times within his first four years as presidents. Again, things like that make people nervous and thrown in what is happening with this 2 + 2 = 4 and some crazy out there is going to go nutso and start a cascade effect that will lead into a revolution.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Dark Alchemist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Distrust of the US govt is a good thing and one of
> the reason (the distrust of a govt in general) is
> why we have all of these rights in the first
> place.

Blind distrust is just willful ignorance. And unfortunately that is precisely where the average Fox news viewer, especially after watching Fox news, is coming from.

And you mention rights. We have those rights to check against a tyrannical government. They work, as evidenced by my ability to go out and do damn near anything I please, so long as I don't violate state or federal law (and get caught).


> Just take a look at the latest fiasco from the
> govt..."US gov't collecting huge number of phone
> records"
>
> "Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., told reporters
> Thursday that the court order for telephone
> records, first disclosed by The Guardian newspaper
> in Britain, was a three-month renewal of an
> ongoing practice. The records have been collected
> for some seven years, according to Sen. Harry
> Reid, D-Nev."
>
> ""I think people want the homeland kept safe to
> the extent we can," Feinstein said at a Capitol
> Hill news conference. "We want to protect these
> privacy rights. That's why this is carefully done
> in federal court with federal judges who sit 24/7
> who review these requests.""

If you want to complain then you should have done so when the Patriot Act was signed into law. But nobody on the right complained. They rubber stamped that shit and sent it to the President's desk as quickly as they could.

But what if the program actually works?

"House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers (R-Mich.) said Thursday that the NSA program helped thwart a “significant case” of terrorism in the United States “within the last few years.” "

The full story.

Accept that you do not have the right to privacy, so long as you are engaging in commerce. The NSA monitoring phone call data (not conversations mind you) on business networks is not an invasion of privacy - especially when a FISA court approves it.

>
> The problem lies in the fact that they can, and
> do, use this stuff however they wish once the NSA
> has it. To make us feel secure they trample over
> the rights of the innocents and we all, should,
> know wehat Benjamin Franklin said about that,
> right?

“A Republic, if you can keep it.”

A little light reading. And we have managed to keep it. Lots of people died trying to forge the union or tear it asunder.


> It is these sorts of things that are helping to
> fuel the govt vs the American people (I am not
> even going to get into the Europe mindset since
> Americans are not subjects) mindset I mentioned.


Because American are, by and large, grossly uninformed peasants.


> So, racism is just a BS card played out by an
> African American political hack that can't take
> people criticisming him. Fact is he is the first
> president in our entire history to use the hidden
> executive order over 1k times within his first
> four years as presidents. Again, things like that
> make people nervous and thrown in what is
> happening with this 2 + 2 = 4 and some crazy out
> there is going to go nutso and start a cascade
> effect that will lead into a revolution.

Obama didn't say it was racist, I did. Unless I'm the president (which I'm pretty sure I'm not). I think he's dealt with the pond scum on the right with remarkable grace. I for one would have appreciated it if Obama had walked up to Joe Wilson and punched his bitch ass in the fucking face.

How many kill orders were on American soil? ZERO. If someone wants to harm the US, is taking steps to do so and is outside of the reach of American authorities you're damn right we should fire up the drones and zap that asshole from the sky. It's way cheaper - and I'm all for saving money where we can.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Great, US politics! They are so fascinating to the rest of the world, especially to the Reprap community

Really, it is about time you guys had another revolution and created a free country. You should kick out the party of tyranny and give power to the party that truly represents people. I've no idea which party is which, to be honest they seem to behave exactly the same.

It's like soap powder, there are two leading brands, one brand claims to remove stains, the other claims to leave laundry smelling fresh. Some people swear "Red brand" soap powder is better, others swear "Blue brand" soap powder is better. Inside the box it is the exact same soap powder.

But while people are arguing about which brand of soap powder is better, the house is burning down.

akhlut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dark Alchemist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Distrust of the US govt is a good thing and one
> of
> > the reason (the distrust of a govt in general)
> is
> > why we have all of these rights in the first
> > place.
>
> Blind distrust is just willful ignorance. And
> unfortunately that is precisely where the average
> Fox news viewer, especially after watching Fox
> news, is coming from.
>
> And you mention rights. We have those rights to
> check against a tyrannical government. They work,
> as evidenced by my ability to go out and do damn
> near anything I please, so long as I don't violate
> state or federal law (and get caught).
>
>
> > Just take a look at the latest fiasco from the
> > govt..."US gov't collecting huge number of
> phone
> > records"
> >
> > "Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., told
> reporters
> > Thursday that the court order for telephone
> > records, first disclosed by The Guardian
> newspaper
> > in Britain, was a three-month renewal of an
> > ongoing practice. The records have been
> collected
> > for some seven years, according to Sen. Harry
> > Reid, D-Nev."
> >
> > ""I think people want the homeland kept safe to
> > the extent we can," Feinstein said at a Capitol
> > Hill news conference. "We want to protect these
> > privacy rights. That's why this is carefully
> done
> > in federal court with federal judges who sit
> 24/7
> > who review these requests.""
>
> If you want to complain then you should have done
> so when the Patriot Act was signed into law. But
> nobody on the right complained. They rubber
> stamped that shit and sent it to the President's
> desk as quickly as they could.
>
> But what if the program actually works?
>
> "House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers
> (R-Mich.) said Thursday that the NSA program
> helped thwart a “significant case” of
> terrorism in the United States “within the last
> few years.” "
>
> The full story.
>
> Accept that you do not have the right to privacy,
> so long as you are engaging in commerce. The NSA
> monitoring phone call data (not conversations mind
> you) on business networks is not an invasion of
> privacy - especially when a FISA court approves
> it.
>
> >
> > The problem lies in the fact that they can, and
> > do, use this stuff however they wish once the
> NSA
> > has it. To make us feel secure they trample
> over
> > the rights of the innocents and we all, should,
> > know wehat Benjamin Franklin said about that,
> > right?
>
> “A Republic, if you can keep it.”
>
> A little light reading. And we have managed to
> keep it. Lots of people died trying to forge the
> union or tear it asunder.
>
>
> > It is these sorts of things that are helping to
> > fuel the govt vs the American people (I am not
> > even going to get into the Europe mindset since
> > Americans are not subjects) mindset I
> mentioned.
>
>
> Because American are, by and large, grossly
> uninformed peasants.
>
>
> > So, racism is just a BS card played out by an
> > African American political hack that can't take
> > people criticisming him. Fact is he is the
> first
> > president in our entire history to use the
> hidden
> > executive order over 1k times within his first
> > four years as presidents. Again, things like
> that
> > make people nervous and thrown in what is
> > happening with this 2 + 2 = 4 and some crazy
> out
> > there is going to go nutso and start a cascade
> > effect that will lead into a revolution.
>
> Obama didn't say it was racist, I did. Unless I'm
> the president (which I'm pretty sure I'm not). I
> think he's dealt with the pond scum on the right
> with remarkable grace. I for one would have
> appreciated it if Obama had walked up to Joe
> Wilson and punched his bitch ass in the fucking
> face.
>
> How many kill orders were on American soil? ZERO.
> If someone wants to harm the US, is taking steps
> to do so and is outside of the reach of American
> authorities you're damn right we should fire up
> the drones and zap that asshole from the sky.
> It's way cheaper - and I'm all for saving money
> where we can.


so if i might ask what country are you from? and what are the gun and "body armor" laws in your country.

I am from The United States of America. New Jersey if you must know. And not liberal North Jersey. Good old South Jersey - far enough south to be below the Mason-Dixon. I live in a red county for sure.

NJ has some pretty restrictive gun laws.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Body armor is legal to possess here as well. Just don't use it in the commission of a crime.

@ bobc - you're pretty much dead-on. Both parties suck ass. At least the Tea Party livened things up with their complete ignorance - it made for great Daily Show episodes.

And yes, the house is burning down. Meanwhile we're having a discussion about why the sky is blue. We're doomed.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Fact is I did complain, and very loudly, about the patriot act and it was, and is, anything but patriotic. Both parties suck the big long one and both need to be out on their collective asses but after the last election I refuse to vote ever again and do welcome a true revolution but I know it will never happen as long as Jane and Joe sixpack can have their cable tv and beer.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.