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Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer

Posted by PeteD 
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
September 28, 2013 09:07AM
Hey, check out the new, flexible resin materials these guys are showing off in their latest KS update:
[www.kickstarter.com]
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
September 30, 2013 06:50AM
I see smoothie board reached their target in under 48hrs.

Well done guys.
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 11, 2016 05:28AM
OH DEAR.

[www.youtube.com]

"David" has decided to use 3D Printing to build a house. Sadly, it's not using the printer, more using the Kickstarter Funds.

Any investors on here who are still without 3D Printing capabilities at home due to this, please PM me.

-Andy Southern
aka BathRobotics
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 11, 2016 02:44PM
Wow, I didn't expect anyone to be so blatant, to the point of risking jail time for fraud.

A shame, because Peachy was something different and quite promising.


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Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 11, 2016 04:57PM
I was one of the lucky ones that got the last wave of beta-tester Peachys. Hardware-wise, it was IMO completely ready for prime time, it assembled easily and it works reliably (though I never got the quality to be all that great). The software is pretty mediocre, and the one thing I was really looking forward to was it getting another much needed update, which now it likely never will.

The Peachy died pretty much as it was expected to, not through technical incompetence or malice, but through basic bad business sense. He hired personal friends for top positions, which is a death sentence for a company. Everything else from there was just an inevitable domino-effect.
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 12, 2016 07:39AM
Still very strange story because on
[www.3ders.org]
" Roe had stolen and spent $324,716.01 of Peachy Printer’s money for his own personal use."
"Roe has apparently repaid roughly $107,000, less than half"

and

[3dprint.com]
" all of the Kickstarter funds — $587,435.73 worth "
" he pursued additional funding, including a $50,000 "

and

[hackaday.com]
"Peachy Printer received two government grants totalling $90,000 and $135,000."

So 325.000 stolen but received an extra 382.000 in repayments, grants and loans. So 50.000 in the plus.eye popping smiley
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 12, 2016 03:22PM
Rylan put out another update that details out among other things, where the other half of the Peachy money was spent. Mostly R&D, since they fought so hard to get the analog audio-driven portion of the project to work, failed, and then went to the digitally driven solution. That alone easily ate up the grant money. I know it's frankly my opinion and nobody is obligated to share it, but I believe him.

I also understand his move to try to get David Roe to pay back the money rather than going straight to the police. If you go to the authorities as the first move, there's effectively zero chance of getting your money back in a timely manner. The house and all the other assets that would have been sold off to pay back Peachy would have been sold at government auction for next to nothing, after the whole trial, which could last months even if the guy had a guilty plea. Trying to work it out first was the smart move, and getting a video confession out of the guy as part of the agreement was smarter.

Backers won't want the smart move though, they'll want reparation, and a few of them will want revenge. Which is a shame, because the Peachy team deserve better than that. If I were in a position to do so, I'd be hiring the Peachy Team members (Rylan included) as quickly as possible.
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 12, 2016 03:37PM
Quote

Mostly R&D
they continued to take a wage from what was left.

Quote

and getting a video confession out of the guy as part of the agreement was smarter

under duress he claims, so an empty apology

"That was taken under duress, extreme duress, at that date," he said.
"They actually told me exactly what they wanted said in that.
"I'm not going to talk about [the allegations] right now."
source BBC

just short of million $ gone they all should be flogged

Quote

Backers won't want the smart move though, they'll want reparation, and a few of them will want revenge. Which is a shame, because the Peachy team deserve better than that. If I were in a position to do so, I'd be hiring the Peachy Team members (Rylan included) as quickly as possible.
you working for'em

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2016 03:39PM by jinx.
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 12, 2016 04:07PM
eye rolling smiley No, I work for a different 3D printing company entirely (one that has actually delivered all of our KS backed printers as of last year, in fact, but that's neither here nor there). I'm simply sympathetic to Rylan's plight because I've been in pretty much exactly his position before (hence why I'm not in any position to hire people currently.)

But like I said, you're not obligated to agree with me.
PRZ
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 12, 2016 04:49PM
It is clear that trying to recover the money without a trial was wise. Lawyers are costly and going through legal system is a very long process. So trying to recover till this is proven impossible is far from being stupid. Not speaking openly about it is an evidence, as it will have killed the project instantly.
Selling an unfinished house will get a fraction of the money which was poured in, so again waiting the completion makes sense.

However, there are questions:
- Why not asking the help of Kickstarter ? They will had instantly understood the bad press it can do to them and may have helped to sort the problem.

- It is very surprising that Kickstarter send money to an individual and not an incorporated company for project which are handled by teams and for such amount of money. A requirement to incorporate before sending any money and maybe before the campaign shall be an evidence. It is not that difficult to incorporate and would-be entrepreneurs which are not capable to do so before initiating a Kickstarter send a bad message about the project preparation. With such lack of control and responsibility from Kickstarter, no surprise this sort of things occur.

- This was underlined by many contributors, but a more sober video was needed. Dramatising the situation notably with the music makes that look surreal and the impression that this is a joke.

Project which try to get money from multiple sources shall get scrutiny. This may be a bad signal. Kickstarter may not prohibit that, but may ask it to be planned. And as soon as a project try to get extra money, an advisor from Kickstarter may have a look at the situation.

Anyway this project had major problems from start. They get much more money than was initially planned, and the amount expensed (with grants and others sources) is many times what they were requiring, with a net result of no final product issued. They were preparing to issue 600 printers on more than 4000 ordered, so worth 60 000 USD per their own unit price. So even without this fraud, a positive outcome with all orders fulfilled was unlikely. This just add some fury in the mind of backers and a terrible press for Kickstarter, which they somewhat deserve.
The question of a full stop with refunding with remaining money should have been raised earlier.


Pierre

- Safety [reprap.org]
- Embedded help system for Duet and RepRap Firmware [forums.reprap.org]
- Enclosed delta printers Lily [rouzeau.net] and Lily Big [rouzeau.net]
- OpenScad delta printer simulator [github.com]
- 3D printing on my site [www.rouzeau.net]
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 12, 2016 06:31PM
I am working on a project now and I even thought about a KS, but this is the kind of thing that puts a bad taste in my mouth about the process. It seems like KS backers keep getting screwed. Also, shame on the peach printer team for such poor governance. I am the accounting supervisor at a company with about 60 people. If I move money electronically, the board gets a report on it. If I write a check, I need two executive signatures. Even if I were scum enough to want to steal, the other employees would find me out in no time because we have FINANCIAL CONTROLS.
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 12, 2016 08:36PM
Makibox printer

[reprap.org]

went the same way in Hong Kong
got printers shipping ready then pulled funding

I lost $650 in the Makibox fiasco.

my order probably sold at clearance sale

It happens a lot!

Beware of snake oil from Jonathan Buford, Founder of Makible,

angry smiley
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 12, 2016 08:47PM
I am sure it does. I would also like to walk back my previous comment on the peachy team some by clarifying.... I think it was naivity, not malice, that got them in this position. The innocent members of that team are victims too, but it is a shame the controls werent in place to stop the fraud.
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 12, 2016 10:29PM
Rylan ought to be putting a lien on the house, so that David can't sell it and disappear with the money.

But I don't buy the whole "spent it on the house" thing. $217K ($324,716.01 stolen - $107,000 repaid) spent, and there isn't enough progress for the bank to make a progress loan? Maybe the mortgage is just a story too. I'd expect that would be easy to check. Or maybe the builder is defrauding *him*.
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 13, 2016 06:57AM
Peachy has 50,000 dollars more then the kickstarter produced! So there was no reason at all to not being able to deliver! However they gave themselves a nice wage and when all the money was really gone they released all this "theft" nonsense as an excuse for not being able to deliver.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2016 01:20PM by [email protected]
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 13, 2016 12:39PM
Investing in a new technology project is risky, investing in an inexperienced business team is also risky. Professional investors (or smart amateurs) understand these risks, which is why they might ask for a significant chunk of equity. They know that 90% of their investments will fail, but the 10% that succeed are the payoff.

I've worked for billion dollar companies, and they can easily screw up projects, the difference is that they usually don't get any publicity, after spending x million the project is canned and no-one outside the company hears about it.

But crowdfunding isn't even an investment, it's a uniquely new thing, but the closest I can describe it is somewhere between a "gift" and a "favour". Backers are giving money, and are expecting to get something in return, but there is virtually no redress if the project fails to deliver.

So backing a crowdfunded technology project is taking a triple risk - and there is no collateral or equity in return. You can't get out more than your pledge, but you could lose all of it.

In addition, crowdfunding makes it very easy for honest (although incompetent) people to get funds, it also makes it easy for criminally minded to get funds.

Eventually people will get to understand the nature of crowdfunding and act more wisely, but in the meantime there will be lots of burned fingers.


What is Open Source?
What is Open Source Hardware?
Open Source in a nutshell: the Four Freedoms
CC BY-NC is not an Open Source license
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 13, 2016 12:59PM
I've backed exactly one KS project and probably won't do it again. I've come to the following conclusion about KS and similar start-up funding systems:

Let someone else take the risk.

If you back a project and it is unsuccessful due to inept management, or it's run by crooks, or both as in this case, you lose your money.
If you back a project and it's successful, you'll get a first generation device that will probably be quickly followed by an improved design that you would prefer over the original.
If you don't back a project and it becomes successful, you'll be able to buy the device easily.
The limited upside potential doesn't justify the risk.

Many will say "but, but, but if everyone follows your advice, projects won't get funded". That's OK. Things got invented, products were developed and funded before KS came along.
KS isn't going to go away any time soon. There will always be people with more money than sense to fund questionable projects.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 13, 2016 03:04PM
Doesn't Peachy Printers financial manager, David Roe,
need a house to live in while managing the money of the company?

It is basically the operation of many USA government acquisitions.

How can one build a factory and produce a product if the money manager
is not real happy. The gold plating must be ordered prior to the steel!

A $100 printer after government regulations / specs, financial management is $100,000

Real hard to take a tinkerer product to a commercial product.

Rylan should perhaps release 12 skunks into the new house
then maybe a KS paid only by David to rid skunk smell ?

angry smiley
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 14, 2016 12:56AM
Quote
the_digital_dentist
Many will say "but, but, but if everyone follows your advice, projects won't get funded". That's OK. Things got invented, products were developed and funded before KS came along.
KS isn't going to go away any time soon. There will always be people with more money than sense to fund questionable projects.

I've backed several... only one (my first) has cost me money with no reward.

My view is... if I don't back the project, and it fails, then I don't get the cool thing that they're wanting to produce. Yes, products were developed before KS. But then product development was mostly the preserve of the wealthy. If someone wealthy couldn't be persuaded to invest, then it didn't get done, no matter how many other people could have benefited from the product. So KS democratises product development; just because of that, I want KS to continue.

Yes, the risk is still there. But it's no longer on the huge scale that restricted it to the wealthy. My one failed KS project cost US$11,874... I couldn't afford to risk that, but my share was only US$35. I can live with losing that.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2016 01:46AM by frankvdh.
Anonymous User
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 15, 2016 09:47AM
Let's call in the Peaky Blinders to sort this out smiling smiley
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 15, 2016 01:36PM
Well this is unfortunate.

At least we have the idea. If they can't make them, we might be able to.
Re: Peachy Printer - $100 Photolithographic printer
May 18, 2016 06:22PM
Well considering that nobody that backed the project is getting their printers it's kind of a bad deal I think, it's a good idea but as previously mentioned it violates some patents and is not something that's deliverable at the price point. In short I consider this to be a blow to consumer printing as a whole, many machines that come out are detrimental to the cause due to poor quality machines, unrealistic expectations and flat out scams..

Read a bit about the controversy...

[theamericangenius.com]

This sucks for anyone that backed it I guess...


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www.hooklet3d.com
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