Any Sumpod feedback yet?

I'm guessing the first batch of Sumpod printers will be shipping soon,... just wondering what feedback there is on these?

retracted

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2011 07:33AM by duncanperham.

If you look at the Sumpod website forum it looks like the first batch is due to ship friday.

Any sumpods arrived yet??

bump

I'm pretty sure no one's received one yet. 99% sure though he's not a scammer, since he's got lots of pics of MDF frames on his site and on the fundraising site. Does seem to over-promise, under-deliver, and poorly communicate what's happening with people though. (Glad I went for the eHuxley instead.)

- I tried to give him some advice regarding the MDF, but was given the brush off. MDF is very dangerous. Probably almost as bad as asbestos when it's in dust form. (The pics on his funding campaign show the workshop and equipment covered in MDF dust. (One of my lecturers in Building Studies here in Canberra [Australia] worked in England for awhile and commented about the laid back attitude to MDF over there.

If you (eventually) get one of his kits seal the MDF right away in 1 undercoat and 2 coats of quality paint. Wear a mask.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2011 07:25PM by lob.

AFAIK (as far as i know), MDF (medium density fireboard) is what almost all bathroom furniture is made of, and HDF (high-density-fireboard) is what the flooring is made of. I think its like that because are about the hardest (tough) and the most water-resistant (among wood products).

Trying an objective comparison, probably initially nobody considered asbestos as bad as it turned to be 50 years later. But that was a very very long time ago, and in different times. Now, MDF does exist quite for some time, in a context where lawyers are accessible much more than during the "asbestos times". During the same time when bags have to be inscripted with "children can suffocate with it" and during which a country decided to interdict the use of salt in public restaurants because it was considered a danger to health of population. So i cant see the asbestos comparison fitting in.

I havent heard of any kind of wood product to be dangerous at any level, on the contrarily again "afaik", all wood products are considered "eco" and "renewable" as long as the forest is exploited in a sustainable manner (e.g. not leveled down).

Specifically again I honestly havent heard of MDF or HDF products to be dangerous, even in "natur" form or otherwise. If we talk about industry - how is the process that makes them, that is different. But that would be for the ppls working in that factory, not for end-user.

So if we talk about the finished MDF boards / products (end-user-sort), i need to ask, is there any documentation behind them being dangerous at any level? Besides it can get to "dust" which we do breathe anyways, in fact living in big cities usually means we do breathe tones of dust anyways. Also about dust, as far as i know (afaik) the most dangerous "dust" is actually cotton "dust" because is has a very low "self-igniting-point", and as such it can start fires incredibly easy. But even in this case the end user situation is different, cotton clothing are considered a good choice for being a natural product.

Just trying to see whats behind this. Sry for my inherent skepticism. Cheers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2011 09:05PM by NoobMan.

"When MDF is cut a large quantity of dust particles are released into the air. It is important that a respirator be worn and the material be cut in a controlled and ventilated environment. It is a good practice to seal the exposed edges to limit the emissions from the binders contained in this material.

Formaldehyde resins are commonly used to bind MDF together, and testing has consistently revealed that MDF products emit urea-formaldehyde and other volatile organic compounds that pose health risks at sufficient concentrations..."

[en.wikipedia.org]

MDF is not particularly strong. It may have ok compressive strength when it's thick enough in a large sheet (such as a door), but it will break easily under shear forces. That's why you don't see joists or bearers made out of MDF. This is because it's made from timber than has been pulped. Real timber, even pine, or plywood, is much stronger. MDF is also not resistant to moisture. Once exposed to moisture or water it "puffs up" and is effectively ruined. It's used in the construction industry a lot only because it is very cheap, and because it can be moulded in large machines very easily as skirting boards, doors, etc. Saving a lot of time/labour costs. Large sheet of mdf goes in one end, comes out the other as a completed front door, then sold at a pathetic profit margin. I doubt it's used in beds though, other than for decorative moulds etc. It's common here in Australia to walk up to one of these fairly new McMansions and see "puffed up" front doors already where the moisture has gotten in under the poorly painted MDF front door. Then in hallways outside of a bathroom see puffed up skirting boards from leaking showers. Trim timbers around windows close to the kitchen sink also. - I have it on good advice the Board who administer the Building Code of Australia are about to ban MDF in 2012 for use for new construction. (In my view they should do the same for glass fiber insulation ("pink batts") - a product that the industry acknowledges gets into peoples lungs...but then they go onto say, it doesn't really matter because "the glass fibers behave differently to asbestos" and then they (very selectively) quote the studies that confirm that pink batts are (cough) probably safe for humans. (Lab studies on animals have shown clear links to cancer.)

Formaldehyde is in a lot of products, even plywood, but MDF is particulalry bad due to (i) the airborne dust generated when being cut and (ii) "testing has consistently revealed that MDF products emit urea-formaldehyde and other volatile organic compounds..." [Refer to wikipedia link above.]

Once sealed well it's, probably, safe I guess.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2011 10:29PM by lob.

Oops sorry Noobman, yeah you're right. Bedroom furniture - draws etc. Yes. Not as bed framing though. Again because it's cheap to manufacture without all the joinery and work of traditional furniture using real wood. It's common to walk into furniture stores here in Oz like Harvey Norman and see a $700 coffee table made from MDF. Apart from the money they save on labour and materials, the industry knows this s*** isn't designed to last long, so people will be back within 10 years to buy a new over-priced "piece of crap" (to quote Neil Young - Sleeps With Angels album.)

Of course we should all remember the wise old adage, "The dose makes the poison." or its cousin "Dilution is the solution to polution. " I'm willing to believe that there are health hazards associated with working in a shop cutting MDF all day long 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year. But to worry about single small appliance like that in a home seems a bit over the top. I doubt that there would be enough fumes or dust to hurt a mouse even if concentrated in one spot much less cause any adverse effects to a human in a large ventilated area like a house. Water, oxygen, and salt are all poisons in large enough doses.

I have no doubt that MDF has all the disadvantages mentioned, but I don't think that precludes it's use in a 3D printer. The printer is not likely to get wet, and doesn't need to be all that strong to work just fine. Feel free to paint it too, just don't worry about your health if you don't.

Everything you say is correct Bryan. The people likely to get cancer from MDF are the ones who work with it on a daily basis in factory settings. Investment in good extraction equipment and wearing of appropriate protective clothing/equipment is the key. If you seal it well (paint) it'll last a long time given that you're not using it in humid/damp environments, and there shouldn't, hopefully, be any exposure to toxins. - Yeah, don't set the printer up in a steamy bathroom : )

(Also, I may have been exaggerating a tad when I stated that MDF dust is almost as bad as asbestos. Seriously though, the building industry has a long history of ignoring health issues associated with it's products...and then trying to deny any legal responsibility later.)

Sry to intervene again, just there are a few things still. Yes there is mdf used in generic furniture, bedroom, thats normal. What i was refering to was bathroom furniture, and all flooring, expressly because mdf has good water resistance qualities and can be made even better. Also i believe the mdf is the strongest wood product, as in tensile strength / toughness, etc (not sure of right word). So i think mdf/hdf is material more or less *dedicated* to bathroom and flooring because of its properties, being much better than any other kind of wood. Sort of for these destinations, mdf and hdf use is kind of mandatory. Mdf is more expensive than normal wood, and if i would use it in a generic furniture piece, it will be in the places where i need more strength, and i would probably be scarce with its use since that will increase the price of the product.

So i believe the ideea of it being "cheap" is incorrect. I cant possibly know all situations around world, but i live in a country where wood exploitation and industry is fairly developed, and i can say that *here* MDF is very much - much much much more expensive than normal wood. Normal wood in form of semi-products forms come in ~4 qualities "steps", and MDF is at least 3-4 times more expensive than the most expensive wood semi-product. Maybe the situation could be different in a country without forests, which rather imports all raw wood, but i think in normal conditions shouldnt be like that.

Similar to MDF there are also other products which i dunno the english name. One would be something like "aglomerated plaques" which are similar but with pieces of wood like ~4mm in average and even bigger. These are the chips residues remained from cutting wood. Another is something like "fiber-legno-plaques" which is a stratification of fibers in different directions and again, more or less out of residual by-products. There are others more or less along the lines. These however are much worse - less toughness than normal wood and fairly cheap as being made from residual or by-products. These are the kind of products which will be easily destroyed and if you buy something like that then, yes in 10 years (i'd rather say 5 years or less) you will have to buy same product again. These are the materials which in moisture conditions, they will appear like they "explode". These are the cheapest ones indeed, because of being by-products (made from remanants). These are exactly the materials where your comments and your generic point of view would of been correct (but not mdf). If i would be permitted to say so: i would say you know something, but not the detailed picture (excuses if i'm not allowed or if it sounds offensive, not meant that just couldnt find a better way). And even for those, there is no point to "rebel" against these materials, since they are by-products, are made just by using what would otherwise go to waste. Better to have something even bad, than nothing. If someone uses such a product in a place where it shouldnt be, and as a result that product will fail, than its that manufacturer's fault, not the material fault itself. Or its the fault of the system where quality is secondary to profit, and where every buyer wants to buy cheapest and overlooks quality. But cant be the "material" the one to blame.

So i think its a confusion between "aglomerated boards" (&such) and mdf. Along the comments of being cheap, not water resistant, and weaker than normal wood. Situations couldnt be more different.

Its not the case of mdf / hdf. These are the most water-resistant and the most tough / strength. Mdf should be tougher than any wood pulp around. And much more expensive in normal conditions. If you buy a coffee table from mdf and one made 100% from raw wood, like oak, i think the one from mdf should easily out-live any other counterpart. It will just be heavier than raw wood thats all. Of course there will be different grades of mdf also like normal wood. Also note that by volume, the flooring (hdf) is probably the most expensive kind of wood per cubic meter (noting most kinds learn walking ... on what is basically HDF). And more or less the same, bathroom furniture (mdf) is much more expensive than any similar counterpart product.

Again, sry to intervene 2nd time, just wanted to put things in the order i see them. This is only my point of view anyway.

Most probably we are just both biased on the matter, just on different directions.

Cheers

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 09:48AM by NoobMan.

I don't know what country you live in but here in the UK MDF is most certainly not water resistant and not suitable for bathroom flooring.

On the other hand OSB is made from wood shavings and resin and that is a lot more waster resistant.

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

nophead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know what country you live in but here in
> the UK MDF is most certainly not water resistant
> and not suitable for bathroom flooring.
>
> On the other hand OSB is made from wood shavings
> and resin and that is a lot more waster resistant.

Hy Well, to be correct in all fairness, i havent said textually "bathroom flooring", just bathroom furniture and generic (room) flooring, like bedroom floor. About flooring i mean the ones that look like these [en.wikipedia.org] which i think its the most common type and is hdf (again afaik).

And you know i didnt meant technically 100% "water resistant", but i believe it has best of these properties among wood products (said that), e.g. compared to other sorts of wood products. I dont think any sort of wood product could be ultimately water proof.

In contrast mdf with osb, I wouldnt think osb is inherently better in terms of water resistant, but i would agree its either discussable or they are fairly close to each other. Again, its just my opinion.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 02:41PM by NoobMan.

NoobMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nophead Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't know what country you live in but here
> in
> > the UK MDF is most certainly not water
> resistant
> > and not suitable for bathroom flooring.
> >
> > On the other hand OSB is made from wood
> shavings
> > and resin and that is a lot more waster
> resistant.
>
> Hy Well, to be correct in all fairness, i
> havent said textually "bathroom flooring", just
> bathroom furniture and generic (room) flooring,
> like bedroom floor. About flooring i mean the ones
> that look like these
> [en.wikipedia.org]
> which i think its the most common type and is hdf
> (again afaik).

I am in a room with that type of flooring as I type this but you can't use it in bathrooms, as it says in the article if it gets wet is swells and buckles. Plain MDF, like I use to box my machines, is extremely porous (you can pull a vacuum through it on vacuum table) and is soon ruined by water.

>
> And you know i didnt meant technically 100% "water
> resistant", but i believe it has best of these
> properties among wood products (said that), e.g.
> compared to other sorts of wood products. I dont
> think any sort of wood product could be ultimately
> water proof.

No I don't think any wood is water proof without some treatment (maybe teak is), but plain MDF is worse than any solid wood I have experienced.

>
> In contrast mdf with osb, I wouldnt think osb is
> inherently better in terms of water resistant, but
> i would agree its either discussable or they are
> fairly close to each other. Again, its just my
> opinion.

OSB is a lot more water resistant than ordinary wood because it has a high resin to wood content. Water runs off it rather than soaking in. It is described as "water-resistant" rather than water proof.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 03:40PM by nophead.

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Noobman if you were to take a hardwood 3m long 4 by 2 fixed at either end and stand on it, it would - without a doubt - hold your weight. Even pine would hold your weight, though it would flex a bit more than the hardwood. If you had the exact shaped piece of MDF if would flex immediately and break. Why do you think you cant buy MDF 4x2s? You can get away with MDF furniture in because there's sides of the furniture and a large base area to transfer the dead load (the furnitures own weight) as well as live loads (stored goods) down the sides to the floor. However, I have a TV cabinet made with very thick MDF [cut in two with 4 vertical joining panels, and triple-coated in paint. Unfortunately it's resting on small wheels...so these are carrying all the load. I'm fully responsible - because I built this myself, and, oops, the wheels should have been placed directly under the 4 verticals to better transfer loads down. It's already flexing by about 2 to 3mm. It's very funny. The base looks like a wave.

And, no, you are completely wrong about the water resistant properties of MDF.

"MDF should not be used where persistent wetting is likely as this can adhesive failure and/or fungal attack. Moisture resistant MDF is susceptible to the same issues as standard MDF and while it can stand occasional wetting it should not be exposed to continual wetting as this can eventually cause adhesive failure or fungal attack.

Swelling is also likely to occur if subjected to moisture absorption. MR MDF should be also be adequately sealed or treated to reduce risk of swelling. MR MDF exhibits a much slower response to wetting than does standard MDF."

[www.woodsolutions.com.au]

MDF is not "real" timber, it's more like highly processed American cheese. It's cheaper here in Australia, and in most countries that I'm aware of. In the long run it's more expensive (with a much larger carbon footprint) because it won't last anything like hardwood, or even pine. (btw Recycled hardwood is great for building furniture. Biscuit joiners are pretty cheap and easy to use to create wide flat sections.)

nophead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am in a room with that type of flooring as I
> type this but you can't use it in bathrooms, as it
> says in the article if it gets wet is swells and
> buckles. Plain MDF, like I use to box my machines,
> is extremely porous (you can pull a vacuum through
> it on vacuum table) and is soon ruined by water.

I havent said that - please comeon. Again. I said textually something like this: "mdf is used in bathroom furniture" and "hdf is used in floorings". I didnt mixed these together into "bathroom flooring" - you did (2nd time now). I guess you were reading my post too fast and remained with that impression. I am sorry i wasnt able to put it in a more clear way that wouldnt lead to that particular understanding, but you probably read some of my posts and know that my choice of words is usually poor like both my mind and myself are. Sorry for that, i do try in general to get more clearer and use proper words in english, but it doesnt come as natural to me.

Again, i havent said at any point anything about bathroom flooring. That would be ceramic tiles, of course. I never heard of any kind of wooden bathroom floor either, i dont think anything like that exists.

> OSB is a lot more water resistant than ordinary
> wood because it has a high resin to wood content.
> Water runs off it rather than soaking in. It is
> described as "water-resistant" rather than water
> proof.

I believe the liant used both in osb and mdf / hdf might be fairly close to one another. I think generally osb is treated for fungi and insects (smth like that), while mdf sorts are usually more variated in sorts. Depends on what they were made for, some of these would be *slightly* better for a certain application than the *common* sort of the mdf. Nothing will change properties to extremes ofc.

I wont argue between any comparison between osb-mdf regarding water absorbtion and swell, etc. Just my impression / experience is that mdf is better, but again could be lots of differences between manufacturers. For example i seen you specified mdf 12mm about your printer in another thread, i was surprised at the time because a factory here makes the smallest starting with 16mm thickness and up to 38mm or smth like that. Maybe coz my experience being with 16mm could be a reason why i consider it "stronger" (generally) and maybe i would of had a wrose impressions if i would of used 12mm instead. Probably.


Bottom line what i said, is that if you do get into a store for furniture, i believe you would have a hard time finding:

1) either a wooden furniture for bathroom that is from other wood than MDF, or

2) a wooden (room) flooring that is not from HDF. Ofc flooring from solid wood and other types do exists (even since before mdf was used), but i dont think they are fairly common now. At least what i know is that the sort i mentioned is by far most common - and is made by hdf (afaik).

@lob:
I dont think raw wood being better than mdf, at least in regards to cnc machine like the thread here. On the contrarily, i would consider it best wood product for a cnc frame. That is again among wood products, otherwise ofc aluminium or even steel would be much better. I dont think its dangerous to health.

@both:

Sry to both if you took this like a fight, i didnt, nor planned to. I made all my comments because of someone posting that mdf is bad, dangerous ... etc, and i sincerely dont believe that.

We do live in a paniking world. I posted against it because i dont want others to read something like that and think that those ppls products are bad and shouldnt buy them, etc. On the contrarily, i think a cnc like that should be very good. And i aint affiliated or have anything to do with those guys either.

I might have too high regards for mdf as a material, than others do. But in a similar way, others could have it too low. Truth is probably as usual, in the middle. Nonetheless, the fact that i do consider mdf a "good stuff" can remain my own concern.

But fact is, mdf is at very least "acceptably good" and most important it is not dangerous, and i am pretty sure ppls wont die from a disease like "mdf-osis" 50 years from now just coz they bought a mdf printer. Mr Lob might still not like mdf and not buy a printer like that because he disregards the material, but why turn off others for that reason.

Cant we agree on some points and agree to disagree about the rest?

And for Mr Nophead, something else:

To best of my knowledge i havent used an offensive tone or attitude or something like that anywhere. But you know, just in case you get the slightest question / doubt around that, or if you do feel offensed by anything else, i am posting this for certainty. I wouldnt do anything like that, more than that, you are something like my reprap father in the sense i learned so much from you and your blog (/formed upon it), and i certainly hope will still do, and you shall know i'd never do anything to upset you or any of other ppls that contributed to reprap and tought me so much. So, i really hope its not needed, but have my sincere appologies "just in case" you find anything like that, either now or in future. And pls know that it if something like that does arise, in my case, it would certainly be something like a bad choice of right words which i find harder than others. And besides that, also pls have my many many thanks and gratitude for what i was able to learn, in spite of my deficits and defects

So.. Any Sumpod feedback yet?

No I am not offended by arguments or different points of view.

I can get MDF in thickness between 6mm and 18mm in DIY superstores. I have never seen any thicker than that, other than mouldings. I chose 12mm as a guess for enough stiffness while not being too heavy or expensive. Also the base needs to be thick enough to take wood screws as I don't want to bother with counter sinks.

HydraRaptor is made from 18mm MDF as it needed to be stiff enough to mill plastic. It doesn't matter how slow the feed rate is, plastic grabs the bit and will snatch if the mill isn't stiff. Perhaps that can be mitigated by a very small very high speed spindle. I don't have any faith in my new machine being able to mill because of the belts. I just want it stiff enough to handle the x-axis acceleration.

I like using MDF because it is very uniform and easy to machine. If the dust is toxic I am doomed because twenty years ago I built a CD jukebox and during the six months it took to develop it my house was full of MDF dust and I didn't use a mask. Nor did I use a mask when I made HydraRaptor and the box round my Mendel.

I must be immune to formaldehyde and ABS fumes as well because I spend nearly all my free time sitting in front of this computer surrounded by hot machines made from MDF. If they were going to give of formaldehyde I am sure heating them to 45C would accelerate the emission. What will kill me before the MDF does is the fact that I spend 90% of my time awake sitting down.

I don't have any experience of HDF as it isn't commonly available here.

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I didn't realise either we were having a fight... but it's not a matter of opinion as to whether MDF is strong, or resistant to water/humidity/moisture, or bad for your health if you breath in lots of the dust or are exposed to unsealed MDF sheets. There are studies out there confirming this - often ignored because, you know, just because a hamster gets cancer doesn't mean humans will. The sample was big enough, etc - and Material Safety Data Sheets available. And there are machines that test the strength of timber. Pine for example is graded. I'm sure there's comparison data between MDF, Hardwood, Pine, etc out there somewhere. An opinion is whether vanilla ice cream tastes better than chocolate.

MDF is "better" for milling because it's reliable the same - smooth, no knotts, etc, and produced in large sheets. And you're not building something like a house out of it that needs to support a large dead [the structure itself] and live [people, etc] loads. [Have a look at my TV cabinet pic...imagine trying to build a house from MDF!] Plywood has layers, and pine needs joinery, and you probably can't get it in anything like the width and variable thickness of MDF sheeting. That doesn't mean you couldn't make a better printer using very good quality dress pine. It's just that it would cost a lot more to manufacture.

I think you might be confusing MDF with these other Bull Sh** products used in bathrooms:

[www.ikea.com]

These products probably shouldn't be used in a bathroom either. How long chipboard and HD fiberboard last probably depends on the climate (and whether the house has air conditioning.) Of course the laminated finish will probably give out before the chipboard...maybe within 10 to 15 years. - Especially in Humid environments (say Brisbane, Australia, or New Orleans, USA.) Of course products with a short life span is good for business....Ford used to design their parts to fail. They wanted you to buy a new vehicle every 3 to 5 years. It was a smart business practice until people started buying more reliable Toyota's instead.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2011 07:01PM by lob.

"product description
Frame: Particleboard, Foil, ABS plastic
Back rail/ Drawer sides/ Drawer back: Solid birch, Clear acrylic lacquer
Drawer front: Fibreboard, Melamine foil, Foil, ABS plastic
Drawer bottom: Particleboard, Melamine foil, ABS plastic"

I would say i am relieved that nobody takes me personally.

lob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
[...]That doesn't mean you
> couldn't make a better printer using very good
> quality dress pine.
I wouldnt choose that over mdf. If not for other reasons at least because mdf is of higher density in comparison, and heavier. Which is sort of a good feature, a virtute. Browsing the machinists forums a little will show that many recommend filling up for the empty insides of machines with epoxies, resins, or any hard and dense and heavy stuff one could get. Cheapest solution i think would be concrete with some additions. More or less in mdf case thats already done, sort of speaking, and extra weight ought to have a positive role. Hence, any other wood would be less dense and lighter, so a slightly worse choice. Just my opinion.

> These products probably shouldn't be used in a bathroom either.
Totally agree on the particleboard on that bathroom piece.

> How long chipboard and HD
> fiberboard last probably depends on the climate
> (and whether the house has air conditioning.) Of
> course the laminated finish will probably give out
> before the chipboard...maybe within 10 to 15
> years. - Especially in Humid environments (say
> Brisbane, Australia, or New Orleans, USA.)
And Great Britain !

> Of course products with a short life span is good for
> business....Ford used to design their parts to
> fail. They wanted you to buy a new vehicle every 3
> to 5 years. It was a smart business practice until
> people started buying more reliable Toyota's
> instead.
Might be the difference in quality concepts at personal lvl vs. industrial lvl. As ppls we understand that quality is when the car never breaks. The industrial design sees the quality very different, that is ideally when everything breaks at same time. Basically the concept of "total quality" means that there is no point in making the car gearbox be able to live 20 years since the motor will break in 3 years and the body will rust in 5. Hence everything is designed to live the exact duration of that product overall lifespan. Basically the idea is that, if the car is projected to be used 5 years, then after 5years+1day, everything should totally break instantly, all systems and parts at same time. If the gearbox is still good, that means its design was wrong, too good materials were used, or too precise machining, thus the company lost money there when could of saved them - hence it was a "bad" design. I believe thats industrial "total quality" concept guidelines.

Dave Durant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So.. Any Sumpod feedback yet?

According to the developer, first round (45 or so) machines should be sent this week. One has already been delivered in person: [picasaweb.google.com]# shows pictures of the kit as received. - Eric Albert

I notice the sumpod site has been down for about 3 days now. First round to be delivered this week, im sure I heard that line 5 weeks ago when he kicked me from the forums and refused me a refund and a sumpod. (I just managed to force one back via my credit card). If anyone speaks out against him on the sumpod site or indigogo, he deletes them. I was #17 on the first campaign, I was kicked 5 weeks ago, and I bought a huxley instead, its due next week, I bet I have that up and running before a sumpod is ever built, as the one that was hand delivered was missing bits.
Now despite having such a dismal record, Richard has started a new campaign for a new product. Anyone with any sense would run a mile from this guy. I am pretty certian that no one in the second or the third campagn will ever see a sumpod. My advice to you sumpod buyers is to jump ship, take the offered refund and buy a huxley, you will get it a lot sooner. The guy who runs huxley is great, hes shipped out over 200 units already and he has excelent coms. none of which I could say about the sumpod and its developer.
Could someone do a real price estimate of the sumpod. It would be very eye opening I think.

Did you even read the post before yours duncan?? A number of us have been given tracking numbers already (myself included) and at least one unit is confirmed as being delivered... You seem to have a vendetta against richard because he was upset when you accused him of fraud, in a very public and disruptive way, with no real evidence. You lost him sales for units which he has already bought up parts for and you jeopardised his campaign. Yes, it is taking a long time, Yes he has missed his own deadlines, Yes it would be nice if he communicated a little more but as has been said SO MANY TIMES ALREADY, this is the guys first attempt at a project like this which was made clear very early on. You did not pay to get the unit on a certain date, it was on the basis that it would be done when it was done. May I suggest that quieten down a little. You are beginning to get annoying.

duncanperham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I notice the sumpod site has been down for about 3
> days now. First round to be delivered this week,
> im sure I heard that line 5 weeks ago when he
> kicked me from the forums and refused me a refund
> and a sumpod. (I just managed to force one back
> via my credit card). If anyone speaks out against
> him on the sumpod site or indigogo, he deletes
> them. I was #17 on the first campaign, I was
> kicked 5 weeks ago, and I bought a huxley instead,
> its due next week, I bet I have that up and
> running before a sumpod is ever built, as the one
> that was hand delivered was missing bits.
> Now despite having such a dismal record, Richard
> has started a new campaign for a new product.
> Anyone with any sense would run a mile from this
> guy. I am pretty certian that no one in the second
> or the third campagn will ever see a sumpod. My
> advice to you sumpod buyers is to jump ship, take
> the offered refund and buy a huxley, you will get
> it a lot sooner. The guy who runs huxley is great,
> hes shipped out over 200 units already and he has
> excelent coms. none of which I could say about the
> sumpod and its developer.
> Could someone do a real price estimate of the
> sumpod. It would be very eye opening I think.

@Thip, I hope you're right. However, (1) I find it odd too that he's launched a third funding campaign when he still hasn't sorted out all the problems with round 1 and 2 yet. (2) I also find the lack of video showing a working Sumpod concerning. (I'm pretty sure there's only one very short video.) Note: Campaign number 3 has only one photo showing the MDF parts. [And I stand by my previous comments regarding MDF.] (3) From everything I've read on these forums, buying a product from anyone who poorly communicates [or makes constant promises that are not kept] via their website news/updates, forums, or (lack of) email replies is not a good practice. (4) And yes the website has been down a lot this week...

@Duncan. I received a replacement part from Jean-Marc yesterday. [NOTE: be careful with the X-Axis screws to hold the brushings. - Drill them out first and probably use the suggested smaller screw.] I'm hoping to have my eMaker up and running in a week or two. - I think there are some delays, especially with those in Round 2 - from what I've read they underestimated the time needed to package everything, but I think the majority of people seem pleased with their purchase, and at least are kept updated and receive replies to their emails.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2011 03:54PM by lob.

@thip
Yes, heard it all before, many times from richard, even that tracking numbers were out, well, should have arrived by Friday then. He said 5 weeks ago that he was definatly gunna ship them all in 2 days, and let people believe that the pods were on the way. So if they aint landing by monday tuesday... Maybe u might start looking at the evidence infront of you. If they do arrive, well atleast your safe, cant say the same for those in round 2 + 3