Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

Here are the settings i use:

#define DELTA

// Make delta curves from many straight lines (linear interpolation).
// This is a trade-off between visible corners (not enough segments)
// and processor overload (too many expensive sqrt calls).
#define DELTA_SEGMENTS_PER_SECOND 200

// Center-to-center distance of the holes in the diagonal push rods.
#define DEFAULT_DELTA_DIAGONAL_ROD 230 // mm

// Horizontal offset from middle of printer to smooth rod center.
#define DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET 198 // mm //158

// Horizontal offset of the universal joints on the end effector.
#define DELTA_EFFECTOR_OFFSET 25 // mm

// Horizontal offset of the universal joints on the carriages.
#define DELTA_CARRIAGE_OFFSET 25 // mm

// Effective horizontal distance bridged by diagonal push rods.
#define DEFAULT_DELTA_RADIUS (DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET-DELTA_EFFECTOR_OFFSET-DELTA_CARRIAGE_OFFSET)

Quote
plrmaker7
Help with calibration - questions:

1. G29 only probes 1 half of bed - is this caused by incorrect z probe offset setting? the distance between my nozzle and zprobe was -37mm. I put {0,-37,-.7,0} in config and it only probes right side.

2. Does EEPROM need to be turned on for the proximity sensor to work?

3. Do I still have to adjust each tower endstop?

You need to adjust the #define AUTOLEVEL_GRID setting. I started at 20. I wouldn't go much more or the print head will try to go off the print bed. Also the -37 will only work
if the probe and nozzle are aligned on the right axis. My probe is right in front of the nozzle towards the X/Y towers. I would try setting that at 5 or 10 and see if you get a bigger
probe area.

No you dont need eeprom for this to work and yes you still have to adjust the endstops. You should have the endstops as perfect as possible without the probe.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2015 12:17PM by davidf01.

Can anyone post a picture of their aluminum corners? My carriages have been off since day one and I'm trying to figure out
what the problem is. I had to pad then out from the sliders so the belt aligns properly. My issue is I can't add screws to the top of the carriages
to help with the endstop adjustments because there is a space there. If I can figure out what the problem is I can fix it. The carriage seems
to be the same size as the ones you can download from folger so my guess is that the corners are off some how. The picture shows why I cant add screws.
I can't adjust the pulleys because the belt ends up rubbing up against the lower corners.

Quote
davidf01
Can anyone post a picture of their aluminum corners? My carriages have been off since day one and I'm trying to figure out
what the problem is. I had to pad then out from the sliders so the belt aligns properly. My issue is I can't add screws to the top of the carriages
to help with the endstop adjustments because there is a space there. If I can figure out what the problem is I can fix it. The carriage seems
to be the same size as the ones you can download from folger so my guess is that the corners are off some how. The picture shows why I cant add screws.
I can't adjust the pulleys because the belt ends up rubbing up against the lower corners.

Put a spacer between the endstop board and the mount, just like you did with the carriage.

Rick

SO does anyone have any ideas or information on how to calibrate line width/height? I know Slic3r calculates the width for me so
I guess calibrating line height would get the width for me. What do I do if the line height is to large or to skinny? Do I just adjust endstops or
do I adjust extrusion multiplayer?

Thx

Quote
llamatrails

Quote
davidf01
Can anyone post a picture of their aluminum corners? My carriages have been off since day one and I'm trying to figure out
what the problem is. I had to pad then out from the sliders so the belt aligns properly. My issue is I can't add screws to the top of the carriages
to help with the endstop adjustments because there is a space there. If I can figure out what the problem is I can fix it. The carriage seems
to be the same size as the ones you can download from folger so my guess is that the corners are off some how. The picture shows why I cant add screws.
I can't adjust the pulleys because the belt ends up rubbing up against the lower corners.

Put a spacer between the endstop board and the mount, just like you did with the carriage.

Rick

Thanks Rick. I hate to move the end stops again but this is a good idea. I may do that when I add a glass build plate.

Quote
davidf01
SO does anyone have any ideas or information on how to calibrate line width/height? I know Slic3r calculates the width for me so
I guess calibrating line height would get the width for me. What do I do if the line height is to large or to skinny? Do I just adjust endstops or
do I adjust extrusion multiplayer?

Thx

"Line height" would be the same as "Layer height".

You could play around with "Extrusion width" or "Extrusion multiplier", but unless you already have changed this from the default settings it shouldn't give such large gaps.

Print something in "spiral vase" mode and measure the wall, I think the "automatic" setting should yield a wall just below 0.5mm (0.47-0.49mm)

Quote
Koenig

Quote
davidf01
SO does anyone have any ideas or information on how to calibrate line width/height? I know Slic3r calculates the width for me so
I guess calibrating line height would get the width for me. What do I do if the line height is to large or to skinny? Do I just adjust endstops or
do I adjust extrusion multiplayer?

Thx

"Line height" would be the same as "Layer height".

You could play around with "Extrusion width" or "Extrusion multiplier", but unless you already have changed this from the default settings it shouldn't give such large gaps.

Print something in "spiral vase" mode and measure the wall, I think the "automatic" setting should yield a wall just below 0.5mm (0.47-0.49mm)

Yes layer height is what I'm talking about sorry. I have it set at .2 layer height and get .45 thick perimeters. If I look at the G-Code from slic3r it says:
; external perimeters extrusion width = 0.40mm
; perimeters extrusion width = 0.67mm
; infill extrusion width = 0.67mm
; solid infill extrusion width = 0.67mm
; top infill extrusion width = 0.67mm

So I'm guessing that I should have 0.67 wide perimeters? I'm consistently getting .45 thick perimeters which is good but I think they should be .67.
I'm just wondering what to adjust to get the .67 like slic3r calculated? Is it a function of layer height to actual nozzle pinch?

Quote
davidf01

Quote
Koenig

Quote
davidf01
SO does anyone have any ideas or information on how to calibrate line width/height? I know Slic3r calculates the width for me so
I guess calibrating line height would get the width for me. What do I do if the line height is to large or to skinny? Do I just adjust endstops or
do I adjust extrusion multiplayer?

Thx

"Line height" would be the same as "Layer height".

You could play around with "Extrusion width" or "Extrusion multiplier", but unless you already have changed this from the default settings it shouldn't give such large gaps.

Print something in "spiral vase" mode and measure the wall, I think the "automatic" setting should yield a wall just below 0.5mm (0.47-0.49mm)

Yes layer height is what I'm talking about sorry. I have it set at .2 layer height and get .45 thick perimeters. If I look at the G-Code from slic3r it says:
; external perimeters extrusion width = 0.40mm
; perimeters extrusion width = 0.67mm
; infill extrusion width = 0.67mm
; solid infill extrusion width = 0.67mm
; top infill extrusion width = 0.67mm

So I'm guessing that I should have 0.67 wide perimeters? I'm consistently getting .45 thick perimeters which is good but I think they should be .67.
I'm just wondering what to adjust to get the .67 like slic3r calculated? Is it a function of layer height to actual nozzle pinch?

Wish it was so easy. Don't forget the quality of the filament, how much moisture it may have absorbed, pressure from the extruder, the nozzle temperature changing the fluidity of the filament, the ambient air temperature/humidity affecting the solidifying of the goo, the nozzle height squashing the layer down, and a myriad of other factors. Change the filament, and start over ...

The bottom line, no pun intended , is to forget about absolute values and adjust as needed. I can't measure my nozzle temperature exactly, so I find the value that works for *my* configuration. Will it work for someone else? If they have my *exact* configuration, it will get them started, but it won't be perfect.

I have the latest version of slic3r, and found the options were overwhelming. I took the Folger configuration file for slic3r and manually updated the values in the newest version. It made a tremendous difference in my prints.

BTW, you could just print new endstop mounts that are taller. It would be a simple cad exercise or check out thingiverse and their customizer to increase the height if needed.

Rick

Quote
llamatrails

Quote
davidf01
Can anyone post a picture of their aluminum corners? My carriages have been off since day one and I'm trying to figure out
what the problem is. I had to pad then out from the sliders so the belt aligns properly. My issue is I can't add screws to the top of the carriages
to help with the endstop adjustments because there is a space there. If I can figure out what the problem is I can fix it. The carriage seems
to be the same size as the ones you can download from folger so my guess is that the corners are off some how. The picture shows why I cant add screws.
I can't adjust the pulleys because the belt ends up rubbing up against the lower corners.

Put a spacer between the endstop board and the mount, just like you did with the carriage.

Rick

David,

You could try these end stop mounts I made a while back for another printer I built. Just put between the end stop board and the mount, as Rick suggested above. The link to TinkerCad is in the description, so you can very easily tweak any dimension as needed.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:761341

(Just finishing up my Folger Kossel build. Will post some pics shortly. Then the configuration fun begins!)

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2015 10:54AM by Vlerherg.

Quote
Joeybane
Here are the settings i use:

#define DELTA

// Make delta curves from many straight lines (linear interpolation).
// This is a trade-off between visible corners (not enough segments)
// and processor overload (too many expensive sqrt calls).
#define DELTA_SEGMENTS_PER_SECOND 200

// Center-to-center distance of the holes in the diagonal push rods.
#define DEFAULT_DELTA_DIAGONAL_ROD 230 // mm

// Horizontal offset from middle of printer to smooth rod center.
#define DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET 198 // mm //158

// Horizontal offset of the universal joints on the end effector.
#define DELTA_EFFECTOR_OFFSET 25 // mm

// Horizontal offset of the universal joints on the carriages.
#define DELTA_CARRIAGE_OFFSET 25 // mm

// Effective horizontal distance bridged by diagonal push rods.
#define DEFAULT_DELTA_RADIUS (DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET-DELTA_EFFECTOR_OFFSET-DELTA_CARRIAGE_OFFSET)

You are the man! Thank you!

Quote
llamatrails

Quote
davidf01

Quote
Koenig

Quote
davidf01
SO does anyone have any ideas or information on how to calibrate line width/height? I know Slic3r calculates the width for me so
I guess calibrating line height would get the width for me. What do I do if the line height is to large or to skinny? Do I just adjust endstops or
do I adjust extrusion multiplayer?

Thx

"Line height" would be the same as "Layer height".

You could play around with "Extrusion width" or "Extrusion multiplier", but unless you already have changed this from the default settings it shouldn't give such large gaps.

Print something in "spiral vase" mode and measure the wall, I think the "automatic" setting should yield a wall just below 0.5mm (0.47-0.49mm)

Yes layer height is what I'm talking about sorry. I have it set at .2 layer height and get .45 thick perimeters. If I look at the G-Code from slic3r it says:
; external perimeters extrusion width = 0.40mm
; perimeters extrusion width = 0.67mm
; infill extrusion width = 0.67mm
; solid infill extrusion width = 0.67mm
; top infill extrusion width = 0.67mm

So I'm guessing that I should have 0.67 wide perimeters? I'm consistently getting .45 thick perimeters which is good but I think they should be .67.
I'm just wondering what to adjust to get the .67 like slic3r calculated? Is it a function of layer height to actual nozzle pinch?

Wish it was so easy. Don't forget the quality of the filament, how much moisture it may have absorbed, pressure from the extruder, the nozzle temperature changing the fluidity of the filament, the ambient air temperature/humidity affecting the solidifying of the goo, the nozzle height squashing the layer down, and a myriad of other factors. Change the filament, and start over ...

The bottom line, no pun intended , is to forget about absolute values and adjust as needed. I can't measure my nozzle temperature exactly, so I find the value that works for *my* configuration. Will it work for someone else? If they have my *exact* configuration, it will get them started, but it won't be perfect.

I have the latest version of slic3r, and found the options were overwhelming. I took the Folger configuration file for slic3r and manually updated the values in the newest version. It made a tremendous difference in my prints.

BTW, you could just print new endstop mounts that are taller. It would be a simple cad exercise or check out thingiverse and their customizer to increase the height if needed.

Rick

Well I guess it is more involved then I thought. Where did you get the folger settings for slic3r? I didn't get any instructions from folger for slic3r.

Quote
davidf01

Quote
llamatrails

Quote
davidf01

Quote
Koenig

Quote
davidf01
SO does anyone have any ideas or information on how to calibrate line width/height? I know Slic3r calculates the width for me so
I guess calibrating line height would get the width for me. What do I do if the line height is to large or to skinny? Do I just adjust endstops or
do I adjust extrusion multiplayer?

Thx

"Line height" would be the same as "Layer height".

You could play around with "Extrusion width" or "Extrusion multiplier", but unless you already have changed this from the default settings it shouldn't give such large gaps.

Print something in "spiral vase" mode and measure the wall, I think the "automatic" setting should yield a wall just below 0.5mm (0.47-0.49mm)

Yes layer height is what I'm talking about sorry. I have it set at .2 layer height and get .45 thick perimeters. If I look at the G-Code from slic3r it says:
; external perimeters extrusion width = 0.40mm
; perimeters extrusion width = 0.67mm
; infill extrusion width = 0.67mm
; solid infill extrusion width = 0.67mm
; top infill extrusion width = 0.67mm

So I'm guessing that I should have 0.67 wide perimeters? I'm consistently getting .45 thick perimeters which is good but I think they should be .67.
I'm just wondering what to adjust to get the .67 like slic3r calculated? Is it a function of layer height to actual nozzle pinch?

Wish it was so easy. Don't forget the quality of the filament, how much moisture it may have absorbed, pressure from the extruder, the nozzle temperature changing the fluidity of the filament, the ambient air temperature/humidity affecting the solidifying of the goo, the nozzle height squashing the layer down, and a myriad of other factors. Change the filament, and start over ...

The bottom line, no pun intended , is to forget about absolute values and adjust as needed. I can't measure my nozzle temperature exactly, so I find the value that works for *my* configuration. Will it work for someone else? If they have my *exact* configuration, it will get them started, but it won't be perfect.

I have the latest version of slic3r, and found the options were overwhelming. I took the Folger configuration file for slic3r and manually updated the values in the newest version. It made a tremendous difference in my prints.

BTW, you could just print new endstop mounts that are taller. It would be a simple cad exercise or check out thingiverse and their customizer to increase the height if needed.

Rick

Well I guess it is more involved then I thought. Where did you get the folger settings for slic3r? I didn't get any instructions from folger for slic3r.

[drive.google.com]

If you import the settings from this file into Repetier: FTECH-2020-i3-Repetier-Slicer-PLA&ABS.zip, there are kossel settings inside as well.

I have two Folger 2020 i3's as well and always wondered why the kossel settings were in here.....

Quote
davidf01

Well I guess it is more involved then I thought. Where did you get the folger settings for slic3r? I didn't get any instructions from folger for slic3r.

I found the files on one of their Google Drives.
[drive.google.com]

In the slic3r file structure, there is an .ini file. Open the Folger one in Notepad and then open up the new one in another window and copy over the values.

Rick

Quote
llamatrails

Quote
davidf01

Well I guess it is more involved then I thought. Where did you get the folger settings for slic3r? I didn't get any instructions from folger for slic3r.

I found the files on one of their Google Drives.
[drive.google.com]

In the slic3r file structure, there is an .ini file. Open the Folger one in Notepad and then open up the new one in another window and copy over the values.

Rick

Thanks for the slicer file. I used some of the settings. I'm still trying to figure out what the best setting settings are for basic printing. I have to add the glass plate I ordered before I do the final calibration. I would also like to get some screws in my carriages so I can adjust the endstops easier.

Quote
davidf01

Quote
llamatrails

Quote
davidf01

Well I guess it is more involved then I thought. Where did you get the folger settings for slic3r? I didn't get any instructions from folger for slic3r.

I found the files on one of their Google Drives.
[drive.google.com]

In the slic3r file structure, there is an .ini file. Open the Folger one in Notepad and then open up the new one in another window and copy over the values.

Rick

Thanks for the slicer file. I used some of the settings. I'm still trying to figure out what the best setting settings are for basic printing. I have to add the glass plate I ordered before I do the final calibration. I would also like to get some screws in my carriages so I can adjust the endstops easier.

Wouldn't it just easier to use M666 to adjust the endstops?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2015 12:24AM by Koenig.

Quote
Koenig

Quote
davidf01

Quote
llamatrails

Quote
davidf01

Well I guess it is more involved then I thought. Where did you get the folger settings for slic3r? I didn't get any instructions from folger for slic3r.

I found the files on one of their Google Drives.
[drive.google.com]

In the slic3r file structure, there is an .ini file. Open the Folger one in Notepad and then open up the new one in another window and copy over the values.

Rick

Thanks for the slicer file. I used some of the settings. I'm still trying to figure out what the best setting settings are for basic printing. I have to add the glass plate I ordered before I do the final calibration. I would also like to get some screws in my carriages so I can adjust the endstops easier.

Wouldn't it just easier to use M666 to adjust the endstops?

I'm guessing it would be much easier to use the M666 and the other eeprom commands. But since there is zero information on getting that working and I have failed when I tried to turn it on and use
it I have given up for now. As I posted in a prior post I get some very strange behavior when I turn it on. I have looked for information on what is going on buy have had no luck. So I went back to basics
and did it by hand. I plan on trying to figure out what is going on with my eeprom once I get this printing as good as possible. A lot of the commands in the youtube video do not work and I'm not sue why
yet.

So if you get one side of your prints lifting off the print bed as the print continues is the print bed not hot enough?

I'm printing PLA and have the print bed at 65. I keep getting one side lifting off the print bed and I'm not sure how to go about adjusting it?

Quote
davidf01
So if you get one side of your prints lifting off the print bed as the print continues is the print bed not hot enough?

I'm printing PLA and have the print bed at 65. I keep getting one side lifting off the print bed and I'm not sure how to go about adjusting it?

Is the bed square to the towers?
Is it the same side as the heat break fan is on?
Also PLA is very sensitive to traces of oil or fat on the bed.

Just wondering if anyone has printed with any type of flexible material with this printer. If so what material for you use?

Thx

There are two firmware versions on the google drive. Neither seems to properly run the printer. I got it to home up to the endstops on all three motors by editing configuration.h of the revB version. Any attempt to move anywhere and the Z motor goes crazy. Can someone point me to the right firmware and maybe even a manual to get this printer working? Thanks

Quote
KevinS
There are two firmware versions on the google drive. Neither seems to properly run the printer. I got it to home up to the endstops on all three motors by editing configuration.h of the revB version. Any attempt to move anywhere and the Z motor goes crazy. Can someone point me to the right firmware and maybe even a manual to get this printer working? Thanks

Kevins,

I used the revision with the with the BPE in the name and there were a bunch of things that have to be changed. The Z axis has to be inverted. If you go to page 61 I posted a bunch of code from my file that shows you what the endstop settings are
so you can compare it to what you have. That should get it so you dont crash into the build bed or go flying off in one direction. You should also check your travel limits around line 325 or something to make sure your travel dimensions are set correctly.
It should be 70 or 80.

Thanks. I'll take a look at your revisions.

Hi David,


I had just a few minutes this morning to try your edits to the BPE version and load it. Home command worked fine and I was able to lower all 3 in Z by 100. And they all went in the same direction! That's a big improvement.

While building it became apparent that Folger has shipped slider carriages that are printed flipped or reversed from earlier models which are shown in their attempts at documentation.
This means that the belts are attached on the opposite side and up/down directions are reversed between different versions of this kit.
I presume the firmware was uploaded for the earlier version and this is why some printer kits will not work with that firmware as is.

Quote
KevinS
Hi David,


I had just a few minutes this morning to try your edits to the BPE version and load it. Home command worked fine and I was able to lower all 3 in Z by 100. And they all went in the same direction! That's a big improvement.

While building it became apparent that Folger has shipped slider carriages that are printed flipped or reversed from earlier models which are shown in their attempts at documentation.
This means that the belts are attached on the opposite side and up/down directions are reversed between different versions of this kit.
I presume the firmware was uploaded for the earlier version and this is why some printer kits will not work with that firmware as is.

The flipped carriages shouldn't make much of a difference. You should be ok. I think we just didn't get updated or complete firmware with the latest printer.

So I finally added a glass build plate on top the the aluminum plate so I could get around the strangely warped build plate that came with folgers kit. I have it level
and can finally get a good print around the print bed. My problem now is the the auto level sensor does not trigger when trying to run the G29 command. Could the 3mm think glass
build plate keep it from working correctly? If that is the case is there some way to fix it so I can use that auto leveler again?


Thanks

Quote
davidf01
So I finally added a glass build plate on top the the aluminum plate so I could get around the strangely warped build plate that came with folgers kit. I have it level
and can finally get a good print around the print bed. My problem now is the the auto level sensor does not trigger when trying to run the G29 command. Could the 3mm think glass
build plate keep it from working correctly? If that is the case is there some way to fix it so I can use that auto leveler again?


Thanks

Right, rev b uses a capacitive sensor for ABL, that might be hard to get working against the glass bed.
There was a thread in another part of this forum regarding capacitive sensors, where several were trying to overcome the difficulties with a glass bed / capacitive sensor combo.
Some had luck putting a piece of tin-foil underneath the glass.

Other options is to switch the capacitive one for a mechanical or optical (some difficulties with these and glass bed also but dc42 sells one of his own design that works well on glass beds).

You could also do a good manual calibration and skip the ABL (cheapest option), after a good manual calibration you very seldom need to redo it, only if you move it (depends a bit on the ridgidity of your build) or change some parts.

Success! I just wanted to thank everyone who has participated in this forum, as your cumulative advice has been invaluable. I have built a couple of other printers, one of which was my own design. These are Cartesian style, but wanted to try a Delta, knowing that it would be a little more challenging. The build was pretty straight forward, as I got lucky in that my kit was not missing any parts. In fact, they sent me a LOT of extra screws/nuts. I'll find good uses for them. After reading earlier posts about issues ranging from printed part quality to heat issues with the Arduino/Ramps, I pre-printed all of the parts before I received the kit and made a few design modifications. Ditched the probe in favor of manual leveling, different hot-end setup with cooling fans, relocation of electronics and more. I also used the firmware posted by thevisad earlier in this thread. It worked perfectly. Just had to adjust a few values and it was off and running. Completed the delta firmware calibration last night and my first print (20mm cube) was nearly flawless. A perfect 20mm X and Z and only off by .09mm in the Y.

I'll post more pics from the build, as I tried to document most of it, but wanted to give everyone a hearty thanks for your input!! Let me know if you have any questions.

Does anyone know the specs on the hot end that comes with this printer? I'm looking to buy some new nozzles for it and I'm not sure what to get? Do we have a MK9 type and not sure what threads it has?

Quote
davidf01
Does anyone know the specs on the hot end that comes with this printer? I'm looking to buy some new nozzles for it and I'm not sure what to get? Do we have a MK9 type and not sure what threads it has?

It's M6 thread in the heatblock, confirmation it by measuring the naked part of the heatbreak, between heatblock and heatsink, with a pair of calipers.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2015 12:52PM by Koenig.