Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

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Koenig

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davidf01
Does anyone know the specs on the hot end that comes with this printer? I'm looking to buy some new nozzles for it and I'm not sure what to get? Do we have a MK9 type and not sure what threads it has?

It's M6 thread in the heatblock, confirmation it by measuring the naked part of the heatbreak, between heatblock and heatsink, with a pair of calipers.

Thanks again Koening.

I'll be getting my Kossel this Monday. The manual really needs some work and lacks a schematic. So I made a wiring schem specific to this kit.
Let me know if you find any mistakes. Also, the Hot end fan setup should work on D9 as shown, but has not been tested.

Kossel 2020 Wiring Schematic

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Cyber7
I'll be getting my Kossel this Monday. The manual really needs some work and lacks a schematic. So I made a wiring schem specific to this kit.
Let me know if you find any mistakes. Also, the Hot end fan setup should work on D9 as shown, but has not been tested.

Kossel 2020 Wiring Schematic

I'd rather connect the hotend fan directly to the PSU, as it needs to be on always, atleast during printing.

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Cyber7
I'll be getting my Kossel this Monday. The manual really needs some work and lacks a schematic. So I made a wiring schem specific to this kit.
Let me know if you find any mistakes. Also, the Hot end fan setup should work on D9 as shown, but has not been tested.

Kossel 2020 Wiring Schematic

Diagram looks pretty good! As Koenig mentions, the fan for the hot end should be always on, so wire direct to the PSU. D9 has PWM control, so it is a great choice if you add a print fan for PLA, as you will have full control during a print (ie. off for the first layer, on at varying speeds after that, 100% during bridging, etc).

The fan should be connected to d9 i believe it is and not always on. With this you can control the speed and fan from inside the firmware. Otherwise you are locked into having the fan forced on for you.

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thevisad
The fan should be connected to d9 i believe it is and not always on. With this you can control the speed and fan from inside the firmware. Otherwise you are locked into having the fan forced on for you.

I suppose if you are not using a print cooling fan it would, indeed, be optimal to wire the hot end fan into D9. Then you could just have cooling disabled in slic3r and have the fan start at 100% in your beginning g-code and off after the hot end is disabled in the end g-code. That way you would not have the fan droning away when not printing.

A choice to suit any need!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2015 06:08PM by Vlerherg.

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thevisad
The fan should be connected to d9 i believe it is and not always on. With this you can control the speed and fan from inside the firmware. Otherwise you are locked into having the fan forced on for you.

Better to connect a layer fan to D9 which you can control during printing when bridging for instance or those small details, for me the hotend fan it might as well be on from the moment I turn the printer with the intent of using it.
I'd rather use D9 for a fan that benefits from beeing controlled.
But thats my poison! (not any longer though,switched board...)

I'm printing a bunch of parts and all of a sudden the PLA stops coming out. The extruder is trying to push the filament through but
nothing is coming through. I removed the nozzle and tried to extrude but still nothing comes out. I have heated the hotend up to 230 and it still seems like it is not melting the PLA.
Not sure what to check I'm taking the hotend apart, what should I look for?

So I have figured out what the problem was. I found this inside the hot end. I have no idea what would cause something like this. Any ideas so I can stop
it from happening again.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2015 11:00PM by davidf01.

IS you heatsink fan running?

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cman8
IS you heatsink fan running?

Yes it is running but it did get disconnected twice while I was printing.

Thats probably it then. I had mine unplugged for 1 layer of printing by accident and it makes the throat get hot enough to make the plastic pliable which in turn makes a jam like you see. Keep the heatsink fan running and you should not have that issue anymore.

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davidf01
So I have figured out what the problem was. I found this inside the hot end. I have no idea what would cause something like this. Any ideas so I can stop
it from happening again.

Did your extruder chew into the filament when this happened?

It has happened to me as well, twice. there's a little space between the PTFE-coupling and the heatsink where the filament can "curl up" and if your extruder is pushing the filament to hard this will happen.
It can happen if you are over-extruding or if your nozzle gets jammed by something.
It probably got jammed when your fan got disconnected

I solved it by fine-tuning my stepper driver, so it starts skipping steps before this happens, so for any reason my hotend can't keep up (low temp, over extruding) it starts to skip steps instead of grinding into the filament / makes a salad underneath the PTFE-coupling.

Ultimately I bought my self a genuine E3D v6, no "curl up"-space on these, and threw that chinese knock-off that came with the kit in the bin.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2015 03:26AM by Koenig.

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Koenig

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davidf01
So I have figured out what the problem was. I found this inside the hot end. I have no idea what would cause something like this. Any ideas so I can stop
it from happening again.

Did your extruder chew into the filament when this happened?

It has happened to me as well, twice. there's a little space between the PTFE-coupling and the heatsink where the filament can "curl up" and if your extruder is pushing the filament to hard this will happen.
It can happen if you are over-extruding or if your nozzle gets jammed by something.
It probably got jammed when your fan got disconnected

I solved it by fine-tuning my stepper driver, so it starts skipping steps before this happens, so for any reason my hotend can't keep up (low temp, over extruding) it starts to skip steps instead of grinding into the filament / makes a salad underneath the PTFE-coupling.

Ultimately I bought my self a genuine E3D v6, no "curl up"-space on these, and threw that chinese knock-off that came with the kit in the bin.

Koenig,
Is this the version of the extruder that you got?

[www.amazon.com]

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davidf01

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Koenig

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davidf01
So I have figured out what the problem was. I found this inside the hot end. I have no idea what would cause something like this. Any ideas so I can stop
it from happening again.

Did your extruder chew into the filament when this happened?

It has happened to me as well, twice. there's a little space between the PTFE-coupling and the heatsink where the filament can "curl up" and if your extruder is pushing the filament to hard this will happen.
It can happen if you are over-extruding or if your nozzle gets jammed by something.
It probably got jammed when your fan got disconnected

I solved it by fine-tuning my stepper driver, so it starts skipping steps before this happens, so for any reason my hotend can't keep up (low temp, over extruding) it starts to skip steps instead of grinding into the filament / makes a salad underneath the PTFE-coupling.

Ultimately I bought my self a genuine E3D v6, no "curl up"-space on these, and threw that chinese knock-off that came with the kit in the bin.

Koenig,
Is this the version of the extruder that you got?

[www.amazon.com]

Yes.

Although I got it considerably cheaper, I bought from reprap.me's ebay store.

If you don't plan on printing any materials that require more than 240°C (which you can't do today anyway due to PTFE-lining) and/or use long retractions I suggest getting the E3D lite6 instead.
The E3D v6 is an all metal hotend thus somewhat prone to clog when printing PLA and using to long retractions, the lite6 has a PTFE lining inside like the hotend you are using today and less prone to clogging + it's cheaper.
I own one of each today, they have the same measurements so easy to switch + I plan to build a slightly larger delta so I'm going to have use for both.

But you don't have to shell out any money on this, it is enough to just tune the driver to start skipping before you get that salad in the hotend, the difference is with the E3D v6/lite6 you can use slightly more torque but you still want to tune the driver so it won't chew into the filament.
It's a rather fine line torque-wise between the salad and the chewing into the filament, so think twice before you spend your hard earned cash on this, do you really need that slight increase in torque or would it be enough to just tune the driver?

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cman8
Thats probably it then. I had mine unplugged for 1 layer of printing by accident and it makes the throat get hot enough to make the plastic pliable which in turn makes a jam like you see. Keep the heatsink fan running and you should not have that issue anymore.

That sounds dead on. We've always called it "heat-creep" and it arises from insufficient cooling of the cold-end of the hot-end. Softened filament doesn't handle the compression well and goes all cork-screwy. That is just an annoyance though. The real danger is softening and destroying your mount. Been there, done that!

Hello. I've got a Folger Tech Mini Kossel Rev B sitting here along with a Smoothieboard. Does anyone have a smothieware config file for this printer that they could please share? I've tried searching the forum but I haven't had any luck so far.

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Koenig

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davidf01

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Koenig

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davidf01
So I have figured out what the problem was. I found this inside the hot end. I have no idea what would cause something like this. Any ideas so I can stop
it from happening again.

Did your extruder chew into the filament when this happened?

It has happened to me as well, twice. there's a little space between the PTFE-coupling and the heatsink where the filament can "curl up" and if your extruder is pushing the filament to hard this will happen.
It can happen if you are over-extruding or if your nozzle gets jammed by something.
It probably got jammed when your fan got disconnected

I solved it by fine-tuning my stepper driver, so it starts skipping steps before this happens, so for any reason my hotend can't keep up (low temp, over extruding) it starts to skip steps instead of grinding into the filament / makes a salad underneath the PTFE-coupling.

Ultimately I bought my self a genuine E3D v6, no "curl up"-space on these, and threw that chinese knock-off that came with the kit in the bin.

Koenig,
Is this the version of the extruder that you got?

[www.amazon.com]

Yes.

Although I got it considerably cheaper, I bought from reprap.me's ebay store.

If you don't plan on printing any materials that require more than 240°C (which you can't do today anyway due to PTFE-lining) and/or use long retractions I suggest getting the E3D lite6 instead.
The E3D v6 is an all metal hotend thus somewhat prone to clog when printing PLA and using to long retractions, the lite6 has a PTFE lining inside like the hotend you are using today and less prone to clogging + it's cheaper.
I own one of each today, they have the same measurements so easy to switch + I plan to build a slightly larger delta so I'm going to have use for both.

But you don't have to shell out any money on this, it is enough to just tune the driver to start skipping before you get that salad in the hotend, the difference is with the E3D v6/lite6 you can use slightly more torque but you still want to tune the driver so it won't chew into the filament.
It's a rather fine line torque-wise between the salad and the chewing into the filament, so think twice before you spend your hard earned cash on this, do you really need that slight increase in torque or would it be enough to just tune the driver?

Koenig,

Thanks for the help. I would love to try printing some flexible material so I don't mind paying a little extra. I did find a better price on the eBay page you posted. I'm a little worried about buying it and setting it up.
How hard is it to replace what I have now with this new hot end?

Thx

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davidf01
I would love to try printing some flexible material

Flexible material is very fun to print with, but can be a headache as well, especially with a bowden setup. The softer filaments (like NinjaFlex) are not really usable (in my experience) with bowden, as the filament surface creates far more friction in the tube than solid filament and will not feed correctly, if at all. Even with my non-bowden setup on one of my other printers it is tricky, but when it works, it is awesome. If you do try it and have success, let me know which filament you used, as I'd be interested in giving it a go as well!

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Vlerherg

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davidf01
I would love to try printing some flexible material

Flexible material is very fun to print with, but can be a headache as well, especially with a bowden setup. The softer filaments (like NinjaFlex) are not really usable (in my experience) with bowden, as the filament surface creates far more friction in the tube than solid filament and will not feed correctly, if at all. Even with my non-bowden setup on one of my other printers it is tricky, but when it works, it is awesome. If you do try it and have success, let me know which filament you used, as I'd be interested in giving it a go as well!

Vlerherg, I will keep you posted for sure. I was reading the information on the E3D v6 website and they were talking about how the new design allows for printing flexible material
That you couldn't do with a normal Bowden design. I will order one of these and let you know as long as it is not to hard to swap out with the current hot end.

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davidf01

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Vlerherg

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davidf01
I would love to try printing some flexible material

Flexible material is very fun to print with, but can be a headache as well, especially with a bowden setup. The softer filaments (like NinjaFlex) are not really usable (in my experience) with bowden, as the filament surface creates far more friction in the tube than solid filament and will not feed correctly, if at all. Even with my non-bowden setup on one of my other printers it is tricky, but when it works, it is awesome. If you do try it and have success, let me know which filament you used, as I'd be interested in giving it a go as well!

Vlerherg, I will keep you posted for sure. I was reading the information on the E3D v6 website and they were talking about how the new design allows for printing flexible material
That you couldn't do with a normal Bowden design. I will order one of these and let you know as long as it is not to hard to swap out with the current hot end.

It has the same groove mount as the one you have.
It's a bit shorter though so you'll have to adjust your Z-height.

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davidf01
Vlerherg, I will keep you posted for sure. I was reading the information on the E3D v6 website and they were talking about how the new design allows for printing flexible material
That you couldn't do with a normal Bowden design. I will order one of these and let you know as long as it is not to hard to swap out with the current hot end.

I cannot recommend the E3Dv6 hot end enough. It is the Cadillac of hot ends, to be sure. I use them on my other two printers and have not regretted it for a moment. I will eventually pick one up for the Kossel as well. When E3D indicates that it is suitable for flexible filaments, I believe they are referring to the actual filament path inside the nozzle. Since it is an all metal (no PTFE liner) there are better tolerances and less irregularity that can cause feed issues with flexibles. I still have some doubts as the the ability to feed the softest filaments like the regular NinjaFlex via a bowden tube, but you may have some luck with some of the slightly less flexible such as their SemiFlex (Ninjaflex). There are other types of flexibles that are cheaper, but I have never played with them. I have a bunch of the red Ninjaflex, so if you are in the states I could mail you a few meters to play with, if you'd like.

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Vlerherg
I cannot recommend the E3Dv6 hot end enough. It is the Cadillac of hot ends, to be sure. I use them on my other two printers and have not regretted it for a moment. I will eventually pick one up for the Kossel as well.

There are users that has indicated that the "all metal E3Dv6" gives you some trouble when using long bowden tube and printing PLA, so depending on what you plan to use most it is a good idea to also mention the Lite6 which is a bit more forgiving.

On the topic of extruders. Does anyone know the practical upper limit of the stock folger unit? I've got a roll of PETG I've been experimenting with and it likes to print really hot. I've read many hot ends can't really go above about 245, but petg has a print temp suggested range up to 250, and in my experience hotter is better. I realize 250 from my thermistor doesn't neccesarily mean the hot end is actually that temperature, but I'm wary of going too high and melting the ptfe tube.

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Koenig
There are users that has indicated that the "all metal E3Dv6" gives you some trouble when using long bowden tube and printing PLA, so depending on what you plan to use most it is a good idea to also mention the Lite6 which is a bit more forgiving.

You are correct, I have heard the same, though I have never used the Lite6 (cannot go much above ABS temp due to the liner), but will probably be ordering one to replace the E3Dv6 on another machine in order to move it to the Kossel. That said, I have had no feed issues with PLA, though I do know that the longer the tube the more apparent any issues would become! Keep 'em short and straight as possible, no more than 1 bend.

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wrangellboy
On the topic of extruders. Does anyone know the practical upper limit of the stock folger unit? I've got a roll of PETG I've been experimenting with and it likes to print really hot. I've read many hot ends can't really go above about 245, but petg has a print temp suggested range up to 250, and in my experience hotter is better. I realize 250 from my thermistor doesn't neccesarily mean the hot end is actually that temperature, but I'm wary of going too high and melting the ptfe tube.

Yes, that is a real concern with any hot end that is not all metal. Not sure of what the upper safe range is, but (obviously depending on your thermister accuracy) I have found that on my E3D PETG prints (will extrude) in a range from 220 up. Layer bonds suck until I hit around 230-235 and best clarity (for translucent colors) is in the range of 235-245. After that it becomes more opaque and the surface finish suffers. Give it a try up to the safe ceiling and you might be happy with the results!

So when I order this E3D V6 do I need to add the Bowden add on I though I read that it has a Embedded bowden coupling. Not sure what that means?

Thx

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davidf01
So when I order this E3D V6 do I need to add the Bowden add on I though I read that it has a Embedded bowden coupling. Not sure what that means?

Thx

If it's a real E3Dv6, and you order the bowden setup, it will come with bowden fitting press fit into the top of it. All you'll need to do is mount it on your effector and run your 4mm tube to it.



Edit: If you follow the assembly instructions and season the E3Dv6 ( add a drop of vegetable oil before printing PLA for the first time ) you'll have no problems with clogging.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2015 12:45AM by Boxcar.

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davidf01
So when I order this E3D V6 do I need to add the Bowden add on I though I read that it has a Embedded bowden coupling. Not sure what that means?

Thx

The difference between the 2 options is that the Bowden version is supplied with 800 mm of PTFE Tube and a push fitting for the extruder end. The embedded hotend does have the press fitting and is supplied with the Tube Clamp as a separate piece for you to use if required.

HTH

Doug

Ok Thanks for the help folks. I ordered the E3D (v6) Hotend - 12 Volt / 1.75mm Universal w/Bowden Extras.

Now is it pretty straight forward to hook this up? Do the wires all go to the same places as the current hotend?

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davidf01
Ok Thanks for the help folks. I ordered the E3D (v6) Hotend - 12 Volt / 1.75mm Universal w/Bowden Extras.

Now is it pretty straight forward to hook this up? Do the wires all go to the same places as the current hotend?

It should be pretty straight forward, as the groove mount should work fine withe the existing parts you have on the printer. The only thing is that it will come un-assembled and require a bit of work. The instructions are easy to follow, just be sure to stick to them as far as assembly sequence and torquing of the heat break to the heater block and nozzle. Save you some leaks down the road. The heater block will not have the heater or thermister installed. If I recall, it came with crimp ferrules, which made extending the wires much simpler than soldering them. One note - you may want to remove the thermister from your old hot end and use it in the E3D. The included one is great, but you would need to update and re-flash the printer firmware with the new thermister values in order for it to be accurate. If you choose to use the new one, I believe they list the thermister value on the website, so you'd just have to change it in Marlin and send it on its way. Pretty painless, actually. You should be happy with the reduced heating time and smooth performance.

As for your second question - Yes, you will connect the thermister and heater wires to the same spots on the RAMPS board and the fan should be hard-wired to the PSU.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2015 05:31PM by Vlerherg.