Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit

Posted by Miamicraft 
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 27, 2015 12:34PM
Quote
hacker
Quote
Tha_Reaper
Quote
hacker
Quote
Tha_Reaper
I Finally got my LCD to work, but it seems that the reset button on the LCD doesnt work.

IIRC, LCD doesn't have a reset button, but rather a kill switch, so it should kill everything, but isn't supposed to be followed by reboot (I hope there's a reason for it, because I found that pretty frustrating personally).
yeah... kill switch. it said reset above it, so i got confused :p
Anyway: i can press that button all i want mid-print. print will happily continue. Only way to stop it is trough the menu, or killing the power.

I thought you might have expected different response. You can also hit reset on ramps, that's what I used to do before. Sintron LCD's kill switch I haven't even tried, maybe it's designed not to work…

The Kill switch on my LCD works well. I use it a lot when I calibrate. I also use it when I messup and make my print bed bigger than it really is. The nozzle might crash into the towers. Then I hit the kill switch and shut the system off ASAP.

Still installing the Duet hardware and IR sensor. Lots of work. Im thinking of selling off my RAMPS LCD setup including the Z probe if I can get the duet to work right.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 27, 2015 03:58PM
Quote
DRTak
Quote
hacker
Quote
Tha_Reaper
Quote
hacker
Quote
Tha_Reaper
I Finally got my LCD to work, but it seems that the reset button on the LCD doesnt work.

IIRC, LCD doesn't have a reset button, but rather a kill switch, so it should kill everything, but isn't supposed to be followed by reboot (I hope there's a reason for it, because I found that pretty frustrating personally).
yeah... kill switch. it said reset above it, so i got confused :p
Anyway: i can press that button all i want mid-print. print will happily continue. Only way to stop it is trough the menu, or killing the power.

I thought you might have expected different response. You can also hit reset on ramps, that's what I used to do before. Sintron LCD's kill switch I haven't even tried, maybe it's designed not to work…

The Kill switch on my LCD works well. I use it a lot when I calibrate. I also use it when I messup and make my print bed bigger than it really is. The nozzle might crash into the towers. Then I hit the kill switch and shut the system off ASAP.

Still installing the Duet hardware and IR sensor. Lots of work. Im thinking of selling off my RAMPS LCD setup including the Z probe if I can get the duet to work right.

I'm still thinking of buying IR sensor. On one hand my z-probe seems to work fine, on the other hand IR sensor is cooler ;-) On the third hand I'd need to change things again…
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 27, 2015 09:11PM
Quote
hacker
Quote
DRTak
Quote
hacker
Quote
Tha_Reaper
Quote
hacker
Quote
Tha_Reaper
I Finally got my LCD to work, but it seems that the reset button on the LCD doesnt work.

IIRC, LCD doesn't have a reset button, but rather a kill switch, so it should kill everything, but isn't supposed to be followed by reboot (I hope there's a reason for it, because I found that pretty frustrating personally).
yeah... kill switch. it said reset above it, so i got confused :p
Anyway: i can press that button all i want mid-print. print will happily continue. Only way to stop it is trough the menu, or killing the power.

I thought you might have expected different response. You can also hit reset on ramps, that's what I used to do before. Sintron LCD's kill switch I haven't even tried, maybe it's designed not to work…

The Kill switch on my LCD works well. I use it a lot when I calibrate. I also use it when I messup and make my print bed bigger than it really is. The nozzle might crash into the towers. Then I hit the kill switch and shut the system off ASAP.

Still installing the Duet hardware and IR sensor. Lots of work. Im thinking of selling off my RAMPS LCD setup including the Z probe if I can get the duet to work right.

I'm still thinking of buying IR sensor. On one hand my z-probe seems to work fine, on the other hand IR sensor is cooler ;-) On the third hand I'd need to change things again…
For me a inductive sensor seems to be perfect - with the alu bed.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 28, 2015 06:39PM
Quote
AnHardt
For me a inductive sensor seems to be perfect - with the alu bed.

What worries me WRT inductive sensors is that they can't account for the thickness of glass and/or coatings. That is not too hard to account for in z-offset and probe would take care of any occasional tilt of the platform, but still…
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 03:12AM
I was thinking of a completely new way of Z-Probing and would like to hear your thoughts on this idea:

-) In this Kit the Hotend is an all metal.
-) The Printbed is made of aluminium

So why don't just put GND on the Hotend, connect printbed to Controller-input with pullup resistor activated, and detect the nozzle touching the printbed? - you would never have to worry about Z-Probe Offset anymore....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2015 03:16AM by Sir_Death.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 03:37AM
Sir Death,

That's all well and good until your nozzle starts getting plastic all over it (as happens as soon as you start printing). Also it's no good if you start using a surface treatment on your aluminium (as most people are). I'm using a PEI sheet so there's no way possible that it would work.

I've considered using a layer fan, and sensing the extra pressure in the manifold when the layer fan gets close to the bed. That _might_ work, and wouldn't depend on electrical conductivity. I've also got a sharp IR sensor which seems to work, although it's not all that repeatable on a PEI surface.

Despite having a couple of probes wired up and working, I'm still calibrating every few days with the old paper test. Just can't seem to get a calibration method to work as well as the paper method.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 03:37AM
1. It's hard to print on bare aluminium. You would normally use Kapton tape, PEI or some other non conducting material on top of it.

2. The tip of the nozzle is often contaminated by filament.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 03:51AM
Quote
Sir_Death

So why don't just put GND on the Hotend, connect printbed to Controller-input with pullup resistor activated, and detect the nozzle touching the printbed?
I saw video on Youtube where z-probe was implemented in this way. So, It could work.
The main issue here is to achieve good contact when touching the bed. So, no glass or tape anymore. Even the coating like ABS soup or PVA will prevent such z-probe to work.
Maybe using effector with integrated z-probe is better? Like this - [www.thingiverse.com] . It also uses nozzle as point of probe, but still incorporates mechanical switch.
BTW, in general, using nozzle as probe is not good idea because the thin end of nozzle could be deformed and flattened every hit and eventually became useless.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2015 03:55AM by GrAndAG.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 03:53AM
@nebbian:
I've printed already about 2kg of PLA-Filament - and my nozzle is still very clean - when heating up the nozzle, I usually remove any old PLA with small tweezers.


@nebbian & dc42:
No - it is absolutely easy to print on bare aluminium - never did any other way, never had a Problem with not sticking... - just cleaning the heatbed frequently with glass-cleaner.
To remove print, just let it cool down about 20 to 30°C - it will self-deploy..


@dc42:
Hmmmm... OK - So I would have to find a way, to get the nozzle clean, before Z-probing...
I'm thinking of the following procedure:
-) I'm not always using the same Filament, I have my end g-code to retract Filament about 100mm - so I would always be able to change Filament for the next print.
-) when starting next print, I usually remove old PLA with some small tweezers, as soon as the nozzle heats up
-) So there should be no new dripping out of the nozzle, until z-probing is finished...

Only thing I have to check: Is there any kind of voltage already on the Aluminium heatbed? -
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 03:58AM
Quote
GrAndAG
...., in general, using nozzle as probe is not good idea because the thin end of nozzle could be deformed and flattened every hit and eventually became useless.

Just wrote my answer to the other two Posts - did not see yours before.
Ok -this point I should consider.
My heatbed is mounted on springs, so touching it, does not mean it's a dangerous crash.
When lowering the Nozzle slow enough, detection should be possible, before preasure is to hard.

I think I'll give it a try - worst case I have to buy a new nozzle
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 05:51AM
There is a commercial printer around, using dedicated, not covered, places to be probed and a kind of stripe outside the print bed, where the nozzle is cleaned by rubbing a bit back and froward.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 06:30AM
Hey there,

can someone be so kind and help me. I am searching replacements for my push-fits. Which are the dimensions? Are PC4-M6 (for extrudor) and PC4-01 (for hotend) correct?

thanks.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 06:40AM
Quote
Rossini
Hey there,

can someone be so kind and help me. I am searching replacements for my push-fits. Which are the dimensions? Are PC4-M6 (for extrudor) and PC4-01 (for hotend) correct?

thanks.

Correct for the Sintron-Kit (1,75mm Filament)
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 01:25PM
Hello everyone. Update to my IR sensor project. I'm a fan of dc42. Bought his PanelDue and ir board. Printed his ir fan connector to the effector. Printed his PanelDue enclosure.

So IR looks great. Works great BUT... I do the delta auto calibration 3 times. My after error correction is around 0.400. After 3 calibrations the center and the z tower is perfect. I do the paper test. To prove it. However . The y and X tower is of by 1mm. It is 1mm to high. The is no way to see exactly how high because I can't make the nozzle probe go down anymore. I don't have the bed.g file with me(on a business trip). But any ideas?

I added 2 more G30 commands near the Centre, at the x and y tower. Seemed to help the Z height at the Centre. Did not do anything at the x and y tower z height. I do a 16 point calibration. This did not help. Will adding more probing points to the x and y G30 (say 5 more points each) help? Is there a way to fix this?
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 01:30PM
Quote
DRTak
Hello everyone. Update to my IR sensor project. I'm a fan of dc42. Bought his PanelDue and ir board. Printed his ir fan connector to the effector. Printed his PanelDue enclosure.

So IR looks great. Works great BUT... I do the delta auto calibration 3 times. My after error correction is around 0.400. After 3 calibrations the center and the z tower is perfect. I do the paper test. To prove it. However . The y and X tower is of by 1mm. It is 1mm to high. The is no way to see exactly how high because I can't make the nozzle probe go down anymore. I don't have the bed.g file with me(on a business trip). But any ideas?

I added 2 more G30 commands near the Centre, at the x and y tower. Seemed to help the Z height at the Centre. Did not do anything at the x and y tower z height. I do a 16 point calibration. This did not help. Will adding more probing points to the x and y G30 (say 5 more points each) help? Is there a way to fix this?

I think you can go down lower.

M208 S1 Z-0.2						; set minimum Z

As for the rest, maybe your effector is tilted? I think you can add correction to each point in bed.g (my plan as well). Still thinking about IR probe ;-)
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 02:14PM
I was reading on how to add corrections. But it requires you to print out the calibration right angle calibrater. My machine is out of commission

I had the same issue at the x and y tower with my ramps set up. But I just avoided printing near those tower . I thought it would be fixed with the ir sensor and duet.

I would recommend the IR once this issue is fixed. Until then the calibration is similar to the sintron mechanical z probe. Error at the x and y tower.

The duet does make the machine louder. It's more robotic sounding. It's more pleasing to me. My son thinks it is cool. He really didn't care for the ramps slow motor sound.

The speed difference it's pretty impressive. At least with calibration. RAMPS set up is dot matrix printer speed and duet is Laser printer (my analogy)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2015 07:29PM by DRTak.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 05:45PM
By default, the firmware will let you go down to -0.5mm on a delta.

If after auto calibration the heights are inconsistent, that probably means that you have an inconsistent trigger height for the IR sensor. This can be caused by the bed surface not being sufficiently uniform, but on a delta printer a common cause is that the effector is tilting slightly as it translates in the XY plane. Because the sensor is offset from the nozzle, this causes the relative heights of the nozzle and sensor to change.

To verify that this is what is happening, lower the nozzle so that it is just touching the bed, then use feeler gauges to measure the height of the bottom edge of the sensor board above the bed. Repeat at different probe points.

To minimise the effect of tilt on the trigger height, place the sensor as close to the nozzle as you reasonably can.

If tilt is causing trigger height differences as great as 1mm, then you have a lot of it and you need to improve your build. Here are some common causes of varying effector tilt:

1. Diagonal rods in a parallel pair are not quite the same length. If you can discern any difference sin the length of the rods, you can sort them into length order and then pair them, so that the rods in each pair are as close to equal lengths as possible. Or make new rods, using a jig to get them all the same length.

2. The bearing spacing is not quite the same at the top of a pair of parallel rods as it is at the bottom. Depending on the design, you may be able to use shims or washers under some of the joints to equalise the spacing.

3. The lines between the pairs of bearings on the 3 carriages do not intersect at 120 degree angles (or the bearing lines on the effector are not at 120 degree angles, but that is less likely). I had that problem because I had one extra 0.5mm washer between a carriage and one of its three wheels. It caused a height variation of about 0.25mm.

4. The carriages are rotating as they move up and down, because the wheels or linear sliders are too loose.

Once you have reduced the trigger height differences to reasonable proportions, you can correct for the differences using the H parameter on the G30 commands in bed.g. You don't need to print a calibration piece, that is for orthogonal axis correction.

HTH David

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2015 05:47PM by dc42.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 07:25PM
Can I change the z height to be -1 in m208

Ie. M208 S1 Z-1


For my first correction. I did fix the trigger height. I temporarily painted the aluminum bed black with a sharpie. Then found that this fixed a height error of 2mm after I did a calibration. So pure sintron al bed is bad. But this only fixed the center z height not the outer height errors.

The sensor is very close to the nozzle. I printed your kossel IR fan holder. The sensor back is several mm from touching the aluminum block. Kapton tape on the back as you suggested. The edge of the sensor is 1.3 to 1.5 mm above the tip of the nozzle.

1. Diagonal rods in a parallel pair are not quite the same length. If you can discern any difference sin the length of the rods, you can sort them into length order and then pair them, so that the rods in each pair are as close to equal lengths as possible. Or make new rods, using a jig to get them all the same length.
1. I have not measured each rod but I bought it from a source that guarantees max rod length difference of 0.1mm.

2. The bearing spacing is not quite the same at the top of a pair of parallel rods as it is at the bottom. Depending on the design, you may be able to use shims or washers under some of the joints to equalise the spacing.
2. I assume this means the ball bearings at the top of the carriage are not of equal distance as the distance on the effector. I will have to measure this when I get back.

3. That sounds like a new idea. Maybe that's the cause. Both 3and 4 comments mean rotation of the carriage from the 2020 aluminum cage. Whatever is the cause it's always off at the x and y tower. Even with the ramps configuration. But admittedly less so with the duet setup

Way back I 3d printed the circular Mercedes sign calibration part. Then laser printed the matching *.pdf. It said impossibly that x tower was 120 deg y tower was 121deg and 120 deg on z tower. For a total of 361 deg. So if my build is not true 120 deg from each other will this be causing these errors. How can I double check ? Or fix it?

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2015 07:45PM by DRTak.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
November 30, 2015 07:50PM
Quote
GrAndAG
Quote
Sir_Death

So why don't just put GND on the Hotend, connect printbed to Controller-input with pullup resistor activated, and detect the nozzle touching the printbed?
I saw video on Youtube where z-probe was implemented in this way. So, It could work.
The main issue here is to achieve good contact when touching the bed. So, no glass or tape anymore. Even the coating like ABS soup or PVA will prevent such z-probe to work.
Maybe using effector with integrated z-probe is better? Like this - [www.thingiverse.com] . It also uses nozzle as point of probe, but still incorporates mechanical switch.
BTW, in general, using nozzle as probe is not good idea because the thin end of nozzle could be deformed and flattened every hit and eventually became useless.

Thats the effector i use.
The tapping of the nozzle is NOT that hash, so i doubt it will mess up the nozzle.
I forgot where the settings where but you can change the probe speed.
To make it just lighty touch the bed.
It works great for me on my micromake

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2015 08:09AM by xile6.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
December 01, 2015 03:24AM
Quote
DRTak
Hello everyone. Update to my IR sensor project. I'm a fan of dc42. Bought his PanelDue and ir board. Printed his ir fan connector to the effector. Printed his PanelDue enclosure.

So IR looks great. Works great BUT... I do the delta auto calibration 3 times. My after error correction is around 0.400. After 3 calibrations the center and the z tower is perfect. I do the paper test. To prove it. However . The y and X tower is of by 1mm. It is 1mm to high. The is no way to see exactly how high because I can't make the nozzle probe go down anymore. I don't have the bed.g file with me(on a business trip). But any ideas?

I added 2 more G30 commands near the Centre, at the x and y tower. Seemed to help the Z height at the Centre. Did not do anything at the x and y tower z height. I do a 16 point calibration. This did not help. Will adding more probing points to the x and y G30 (say 5 more points each) help? Is there a way to fix this?

Might it be possible, your endstop Switches on x and y are much too high, so the Firmware assumes, it would be safer not to go any lower?
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
December 01, 2015 03:27AM
Quote
xile6

Thats the effector i use.
The tapping of the nozzle is that hash, so i doubt it will mess up the nozzle.
I forgot where the settings where bit you can change the probe speed.

It works great for me on my micromake

I think I remember seeing it in Marlin_main (not in config.h) .. - I'll check..
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
December 01, 2015 07:20AM
Hey! Sorry, I won't be home the next days, so I cannot check it by myself: what is the diameter of the heatplate? I would like to order a glasplate, however 170mm (as suggested for the Kossel Mini) seems to be too small...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2015 07:33AM by HaGeEm.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
December 01, 2015 07:38AM
Quote
HaGeEm
Hey! Sorry, I won't be home the next days, so I cannot check it by myself: what is the diameter of the heatplate? I would like to order a glasplate, however 170mm (as suggested for the Kossel Mini) seems to be too small...

220mm, I believe.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
December 01, 2015 08:36AM
Just measured mine, it's 220 mm.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
December 01, 2015 09:35AM
Thank you, @hacker and @nebbian!
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
December 01, 2015 12:38PM
Quote
Sir_Death
Quote
DRTak
Hello everyone. Update to my IR sensor project. I'm a fan of dc42. Bought his PanelDue and ir board. Printed his ir fan connector to the effector. Printed his PanelDue enclosure.

So IR looks great. Works great BUT... I do the delta auto calibration 3 times. My after error correction is around 0.400. After 3 calibrations the center and the z tower is perfect. I do the paper test. To prove it. However . The y and X tower is of by 1mm. It is 1mm to high. The is no way to see exactly how high because I can't make the nozzle probe go down anymore. I don't have the bed.g file with me(on a business trip). But any ideas?

I added 2 more G30 commands near the Centre, at the x and y tower. Seemed to help the Z height at the Centre. Did not do anything at the x and y tower z height. I do a 16 point calibration. This did not help. Will adding more probing points to the x and y G30 (say 5 more points each) help? Is there a way to fix this?

Might it be possible, your endstop Switches on x and y are much too high, so the Firmware assumes, it would be safer not to go any lower?

Very possible. They are the only 2 at the very top of the towers. I'll have to adjust it and recalibrate
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
December 01, 2015 02:19PM
RepRapFirmware doesn't care how far out the endstop switches are. As long as you set the dive height high enough (M558 H parameter) so that probing is successful, auto calibration will set the homing switch offsets correctly - although you may need to do more than one iteration if the initial errors are large.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
December 01, 2015 04:21PM
Quote
DRTak
Way back I 3d printed the circular Mercedes sign calibration part. Then laser printed the matching *.pdf. It said impossibly that x tower was 120 deg y tower was 121deg and 120 deg on z tower. For a total of 361 deg. So if my build is not true 120 deg from each other will this be causing these errors. How can I double check ? Or fix it?

I don't think it could possibly say that. It doesn't say anything about Z-tower, you're supposed to align the object so that Z-tower is zero degrees and then if one is 120 and the other is 121, then the third angle is 119. That object/pdf give you basically the angles between Z and X and Z and Y.

Anyway, I've had similar problem with one part of the bed being somewhat (not as bad as your case) lower than the other and so I suspected tilt — I've redone rods, but if my hands were so reliable I wouldn't need 3d printer! So I suspect its rods. Though David's list of things to check is really precious piece of advice I still need to follow.

Meanwhile, what I've done now is I've calibrated, then went to all the points equipped with the sheet of paper and based on the difference added H to each bed.g's point. And it looks like it did help! Maybe David can comment whether the procedure is sane and useful for others or it has just helped me because of sheer luck ;-)
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
December 05, 2015 10:50AM
Hello everyone, I'm new to the forums here.

I recently brought a Sintron Kossel kit last week to see if it would be any good for what I need and I have spent since then trying to calibrate the printer.

I've so far read 8 tutorials and I believe I have set everything correctly, all the measurements are correct. However when auto-calibrating from pronterface it begins by probing the middle of the bed then twice in one spot near Z tower, then drives itself into the bed. I've already tried inverting all of the endstop logic settings but nothing works.

Perhaps someone knows what I'm doing wrong or perhaps maybe someone can upload a recent working version of the firmware? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
December 06, 2015 06:09AM
Before you start auto level, try to print something and see if the printer works. ( beside bed adhesion )
Maybe cheat on the nozzle height to print a few mm in the air.
Just to see, if your setup-logic adds up.
-Olaf
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login