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priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley

Posted by Hedgehog 
priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 12, 2017 11:55AM
The AC power supply goes into the weird box, and then goes into the motherboard/base. I recently changed the hot end (cartridge and everything-got it from [www.ebay.ca]), and I have noticed that the wires bringing electricity into the base (the negative one, from the box to the base) gets really hot. I realized I put my square fan on wrong, so I reconfigured the wiring, until now. I left my print, and when I came back it showed me the start screen, now the head is black, the rubber is melted and the metal near it is a bit deformed. Just goes to show how damn hot the wire got. It was still functional though, as the LED screen still worked. I need to replace the green thing you screw the wire into.
INFO:
I use MKS base V1.4
on prusa i3 electron (basically Migbot)
Questions:
-is there a difference between the two wires of the heating cartridge?--The one I am using is 12V, i dont know which V the printer came with, did not specify-- because I can't see one! Could that be the problem?
-Can i replace the head the wires go into or do I need to get a new base? Here is an image, don't worry, link is safe : [github.com] although he is using a V1.2 board. THE HEAD WHERE IT SAYS "POWER SUPPLY".


Many thanks if you can help me. I'm getting worried as hell.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 17, 2017 11:37AM
someone help at least with the cartridge........ please?
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 17, 2017 01:16PM
There is no polarity on the heat cartridge or the thermistor (heat sensor). However, the cartridge you select is dependent on you're power supply. There are 24V and 12V models. Since the part you ordered is 12V and the power supply is 12V, the only thing I can think of is that actual wiring of the cartridge might be defective, the thermistor may be needed to be updated in the printer firmware to reflect the correct type. Without the correct thermistor number in the firmware you can actually get readings of heat to be high, low or all over the map. Might want to check that first.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 17, 2017 03:16PM
oh ok. thanks . uh... i print from sd. what is the firmware you are talking about? i understand the concept i dont have firmware or the data. how does one sync the firmware with cartridge?
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 17, 2017 05:51PM
That depends on the firmware you are using. Is it Marlin?
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 17, 2017 10:15PM
marlin reprap i think.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 17, 2017 10:15PM
the source flavour, right? marlin.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 18, 2017 02:40AM
Before trying to reflash a new marlin version you could try to use the thermistor from the old hotend. That's the one your controller is tuned to.

Also make sure, the heater element is tight in the hotend and the wires provide good contact with the screw terminals of the controller.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2017 02:42AM by o_lampe.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 18, 2017 03:38AM
Try checking the heater cartridge resistance with a meter. For a 12V 40W cartridge the resistance should read 3.6 Ohms. If it is lower than this then it will draw too much current, which would account for the wire heating.

The other thing that can cause heating problems is arcing in plain screw connections. Fit some crimp-on connectors to the power wires and then make sure the connection screws are tight
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 18, 2017 09:45AM
what is arcing in connections? im not really too worried with the cartridge, although checking resistance is a good idea. ill do ahead and grab an omegathingymeter from my school and check if its 3.6 ohm. It's the power supply feeding into the mainboard/base that got burned. my dad called it an overburn, whatever that is. i will get a picture out today.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 18, 2017 10:11AM
When bare stranded wire is twisted and secured under a connector screw this is OK, provided that the current carried by the wire is only a couple of amps and is reasonably constant.

3D printers mainly have a single pair of wires connecting the power supply to the control board. On 12V printers the extruder heater and bed heater, when heated together, draw around 16 amps from the PSU. To this must be added the power for the steppers and the board itself. If there is the slightest internal resistance in the connection, the high current flowing through it will cause heating. This is not initially serious, but will cause the wire end to distort under the screw. When the high current switches off, the connection will cool down, except that the wire is not held quite so tightly as before. The next time the high current is turned on the connection resistance is a little higher so it heats more and distorts more.

This process repeats over time as the printer is used, until it gets to the point where an arc can start. Think of an arc as a continuous spark. Arcs are very hot and the rate of heating in the connection rises enormously. This will melt the plastic parts of the connections and the insulation of any wires connected to them.

The only way to prevent this, is to fit what are known as crimp-on cable connectors to the bare ends of the wire. These can be screwed down hard on the connection and do not distort, so that the heating situation cannot arise.

You should be concerned about the cartridge, as there is no guarantee that it is not faulty. If its resistance is significantly lower than 3.6 ohms, then the current drawn will increase and the heating effect is proporional to the square of the current.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 18, 2017 07:36PM
Ok. Thanks. I understand. I will test the cartridge in about a week, providing i can get my hands on an ohmmeter. So... i just tihghten the screws on the connection every time i print? that sounds simple!
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 18, 2017 07:39PM
I have another cartridge... but! i cannot get it out of the damned aluminum heater block... it seems to be stuck, my allen key just slides in the damned screw! What are you printing with, just curious?
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 18, 2017 11:15PM
Finally got the damned pictures.
Does anyone, ANYONE, know how to replace the green part that got destroyed?

Here are three images, uploaded to google drive. You do NOT need google to access. only the link smiling smiley. i do believe it is safe.
right click/or/ control click link and select copy link and paste it into a new tab if you do not believe me

[drive.google.com]
[drive.google.com]
and the full view:
[drive.google.com]

As you can see, i am using an MKS 1.4 base, question:::

can i replace the green burnt part or do i need to replace the board? the green part is now unusable, i have tried. melted rubber too stronk man.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2017 11:16PM by Hedgehog.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 19, 2017 12:23AM
You can replace the green part, have a look on the internet. You need to know the spacing of the pins that are soldered into the board. Buy one, or similar, rated at at least 30 amps. Unsolder the old one with a soldering iron and solder then new one in. You asked what I use, it's an Anet A8.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 19, 2017 12:35AM
Oh... ok. i will look around. what would the green thingy be called-- i just looked. again. tried random keywords, come with nothing--? and ur anet is obviosly based on the prusa i3 smiling smiley. There is a problem... i do not have a soldering iron. I do not know how to use it. i will try:

turn it on, however you do that, and it gets hot. melt the ends of the metal u want to connect and put them together?
and you get these irons through walmart or i can rent them in home depot or rona or something?

Oh yeah and how do i get the destroyed one off? i am sorry i am basically clueless, i am new to these things. i suppose thats what forums r for tho...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 12:41AM by Hedgehog.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 19, 2017 02:51AM
My MKS Base 1.4 had weak solder point on both green sockets (power & bed). When playing with the screws, they move a little and the socket terminals get loose in the PCB. Found that using a thermo camera wondering why the sockets and the first 4-5cm of wires had 55 degrees C compared to 30 degrees for the rest of the wire.
So get cheap soldering iron, new sockets (they are called screw terminal blocks or something like this) and make sure you create strong electrical and mechanical connections. Also check if they are 5 or 5.08mm pitch, I don't know.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 19, 2017 03:03AM
According to the BOM list of RAMPS 1.3 the green connector is called:
MSTBA 2,5 and MSTBT 2,5 (5.04mm spacing 4 connector)

It's not the same as yours and MKS is closed source, but if you look for Phoenix Contact resellers and find the right connector spacing you are on the right path.

If you are able do unsolder the burnt connector, you can solder the wire directly to the board and use any decent RC-Hobby plug you like. ( Deans T-connector or hobbykings XT60 )

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 03:11AM by o_lampe.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 19, 2017 09:55AM
Quote
sigxcpu
My MKS Base 1.4 had weak solder point on both green sockets (power & bed). When playing with the screws, they move a little and the socket terminals get loose in the PCB. Found that using a thermo camera wondering why the sockets and the first 4-5cm of wires had 55 degrees C compared to 30 degrees for the rest of the wire.
So get cheap soldering iron, new sockets (they are called screw terminal blocks or something like this) and make sure you create strong electrical and mechanical connections. Also check if they are 5 or 5.08mm pitch, I don't know.

wow! thanks. The first 3 cm of wires of mine got melted, blackened and burned... must be something like a bad soldering job... SO! how do i unsolder those green blocks??? they are loose, I give them that, but i have tried pulling them off. only by hand, I just checked bmy heat bed terminal block, it is loose too. should i replace that? also, what is the pitch? the distance between the two points going in?

but really, how the hell to you get those blocks off... and thanks O_LAMPE for the suggestion of skipping the block step. the random connectors seem interesting

OH YEAH!!! is there any specification of soldering iron, what temperature it must reach or its voltage etc.?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 10:19AM by Hedgehog.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 19, 2017 10:01AM
Quote
o_lampe
According to the BOM list of RAMPS 1.3 the green connector is called:
MSTBA 2,5 and MSTBT 2,5 (5.04mm spacing 4 connector)

It's not the same as yours and MKS is closed source, but if you look for Phoenix Contact resellers and find the right connector spacing you are on the right path.

If you are able do unsolder the burnt connector, you can solder the wire directly to the board and use any decent RC-Hobby plug you like. ( Deans T-connector or hobbykings XT60 )

AND!!! uh... your mstbt/mstba 2,5 things all give search results for several wires of input, is there one that has only one?
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 19, 2017 10:41AM
Got a picture! uhhhhh,..... about the pitch of 5 mm or 5.08... uh... i am not sure. any help?

here is another google link:
[drive.google.com]

so.. help me decide please. sad smiley
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 19, 2017 03:47PM
It is 5.08 for sure. Only a few designers use mm based parts. 90% of the world uses inch scaling.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 19, 2017 07:22PM
so these websites would work, wouldn't they?
[www.ebay.ca]
[www.ebay.ca]

and the solder iron:
[V0AAOSwWC1XpihS" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.ebay.ca]

i live in canada. so yeah, .ca at the end

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2017 03:47PM by Hedgehog.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 21, 2017 09:41PM
Oh well. no one wants to answer. thanks to all though. thank you all for your amazing help!!!
i really learned from yall
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 22, 2017 03:29AM
Why don't you grow some [email protected] lls and trust your own conclusion? The necessary information is there... smiling smiley
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
February 22, 2017 01:55PM
Quote
o_lampe
Why don't you grow some [email protected] lls and trust your own conclusion? The necessary information is there... smiling smiley
gee. u is very nice! i dont trust myself cuz i almost fcked up my motherboard when i wired it, im new to this stuff and i should be careful...

no hate. just saying. peace smiling smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2017 01:56PM by Hedgehog.
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
March 01, 2017 04:48AM
Well...


If you never ever have soldered something bevor, maybe you should not start with it on this board - might get completely damaged, if you do not know what to do.
I fear best advice would be to find somebody near you, who is able to do the soldering and maybe teach you a little bit of soldering and electricity, cause you might need it in your future.

The error that caused the terminal block to melt was, that the wire got loose in the terminal block, and so the block got burnt. Call yourself lucky, your house did not burn down. - There are already some Reprapers who managed to do that.

Why the wire got loose? - Maybe it was not tightend enough, or maybe it was overtightened and thus breaking the terminal block.

So please take care of yourself and your Family and learn how to work with electricity without danger to you or anyone else. - And I hope you already installed a smoke detector near your 3D-printer - if not, well... I think you should do immediately.


Owner of a Sintron Kossel Delta Printer an a self sourced KosselXXL
Re: priinter base supply region got fried...eye popping smiley
March 03, 2017 10:51AM
Oh... ok. jeez. burning a house down??? damn... And the smoke detector. Thanks for the idea. I have no idea how the wire got loose, I think it just got loose over time.
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