Ormerod commissioning problems [SOLVED]

I've been trying to commission my Ormerod (#072) for most of the day. The current problems are:

1. I can't get Pronterface to consider the printer is online without resorting to a cumbersome procedure. It looks like the Duet firmware (updated to latest as of today) is not going into Marlin emulation mode. When I try to connect to it in Pronterface, it sends out the M105 commands and the Duet responds with the temperatures, but without the "ok" at the start. So Pronterface doesn't treat the printer as online. If I use the Arduino serial monitor and issue the M503 command, it prints the commands from config,g, including the M555 P2 command to set Marlin emulation mode, so it's definitely there. If I send "M555 P2" manually, then the Duet starts putting "ok" at the start of its responses. After that, I can close the serial monitor and then connect with Pronterface. So I guess the Duet is either ignoring that line in config.g or resetting its configuration after processing it.

2. I can't connect to the Duet over Ethernet - I can't even ping it. Maybe it's ignoring the whole config.g file so the IP address is wrong. This is while the board is powered form USB, because I know about the problem with lack of 5V supply on early Duet boards if the USB port is not connected.

3. Y axis homing works OK but X and Z axis homing doesn't. When I connected the proximity sensor yesterday, I was sure I had the connector the right way round as in the photos. But I checked this evening and it was the wrong way round. Was it me, or have the photos changed today? (they change so often). I've corrected the connections, but homing still doesn't work. Is my proximity sensor board blown? I tried to find a schematic and PCB layout for it so that I can check it with a multimeter or scope, but I can't find them, just a bunch of mechanical design files for Ormerod.

Any help gratefully received. I've emailed RepRapPro support, but they seem to be taking a long time to respond recently (I guess they are overwhelmed).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2013 08:40AM by dc42.

Hi dc42,

as you have board #072 you may experience some problems due to a defective board (the first 220 boards/ kits have some issues regarding power supply and network). Read the forum for details. You may replace the board. For this you need to contact RepRapPro by email oder IRC.
X-axis homing has also already been discussed - a little piece of the supplied reflective foil or any (white) tape put on the lug on the printed part below the proximity sensor when in x-home position should work.

Markus

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XBee & electronics blog: [lookmanowire.blogspot.com]

Hi Markus, thanks for your response.

I don't think the X-axis homing problem is down to lack of reflective tape. When I try to home the X axis, it doesn't move at all. When I try to home the Z axis, it drops the head a few mm and stops. I think the problem is that I had the sensor board connections the wrong way round. I've just traced the circuit, and the only component I found on the proximity board that I think would be likely to be damaged by incorrect polarity is a tantalum capacitor. So I'll try replacing that.

I eventually managed to connect to it over Ethernet. Issuing the M552 command returned the Ethernet address as 192.168.1.10, so once again it was ignoring config.g. I connected to it on that address and was able to get it to respond to commands.

It's been suggested to me that the Duet may need more power than my laptop USB port was supplying, so tomorrow I'll either try using a powered hub, or feed it +5V to it from the ATX power supply. I'll ask for a new Duet board when RepRapPro reopens after Christmas.

Proximity sensor: [github.com]
It's really just an LED, but that's why the polarity needs to be the correct way around. The picture hasn't changed since it was first put up, though I think I rotated it to be the right way around. We can replace the proximity board under warranty if it's damaged.
If the motors aren't moving at all, it really does sound like a 5V supply problem, like in this thread: [forums.reprap.org]

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2013 06:45PM by droftarts.

I've just bench-tested the proximity sensor, applying +5V to the leftmost pin (the one with the pink wire on the photo), ground to the centre pin, and looking at the voltage on the 3rd pin on a scope. It seems to be working fine. Output is close to ground initially, rising to beyond 4V when I hold a reflective foil surface close enough to the sensor.

@dc42 -I had the same failure to execute config.g (although I had no problem writing to the card, or executing g-code from it) so probably had the same problem as you - I no longer have the problem. Unfortunately I can't pinpoint exactly why - I'd presumed it had gone away with a firmware update a few days ago - it might just be that it coincided with me changing my SD card. I actually thought that changing it had had no effect, but it may be that it coincided with the firmware update and I attributed the fix to that - if you have a spare micro sd (or a spare fiver) it might be worth seeing if popping a new one in works.

For the probing issue, have you tried sending G31 (with no parameters) to see what the output of the probe is at different heights? Maybe it drops and stops because it's working fine but has too low a target value (my sensor homes well off glass or kapton and doesn't need the foil) - it might be worth raising Z to 10 or so and sending G31 then lowering it a mm at a time and seeing if the value increases. I'd imagine that if it wasn't generating a signal it wouldn't stop shortly after you send the home Z command, but just keep winding down after it hits the bed trying to reach its target value - hopefully this is the case and you can edit the target appropriately (there's a line in config.g that sets the homing target at a signal level of 500 then winds down 0.5mm more

Quote

G31 Z0.5 P500 ; Set Z probe height and threshold

- mine hits that target at around 3mm over kapton or 0.5mm over glue-smeared glass, it was up at around 7 or 8 mm over foil before I stopped using foil).


Cheers

Ray

I just found why the proximity sensor wasn't working. I sent G31 commands to get the proximity sensor readings. With the head in the middle of the bed and a long way from it, I was getting a reading of 844, and it was very sensitive to anything (e.g. my hand) that I placed under it, even if not very close to the sensor. The Ormerod is on a table with a 50W halogen bulb in the ceiling above. I turned off the lights, the reading dropped to 4, and homing the x-axis worked.

In summary, the Ormerod does not work under halogen lighting. I guess the Duet is just reading the amount of IR picked up by the phototransistor, when it should really be modulating the output of the photodiode and measuring just the component of phototransistor current that is in sync with the modulation. This sort of thing (i.e. phase sensitive detection) isn't hard to do in software on an Arduino, I've done it in a couple of projects.

I also found that if I press the reset button then config.g does get processed, although the web interface (which is now at a different IP address) then hangs when I try to log on.

PS - rayhicks, thanks for your reply, I just got it after posting this one. I'll try another SD card.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2013 08:53PM by dc42.

@dc42: we talked about adding PWM to the LED today (or at least flashing on and off), in a meeting about firmware. It has been suggested by a few customers as a way of mitigating the effect of background light. Adrian thinks it will be possible. It's the sort of thing we hadn't thought of, but thank the community for suggesting it!

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Hi,


Seems like light sensitive sensors are not suitable as homing sensor in real bright condition ? I've read somewhere people mentioned that he put the Ormerod near window and sunlight shine onto Ormerod and homing problem occur.
I really hope that Ormerod will come with something like small magnet with Hall effect sensor as homing sensor.

Still waiting for mine, RS ruined my order twice recently, I still can't get an Ormerod and been informed it will be end of January. And need to wait for 2 weeks for my refund for previous order.

Anyway , hope that I can place order directly from reprap pro, to avoid such trouble from RS.

Once I received ,I don't know how well it will work but I will try to mod it to Hall effect sensor, because my work bench light sure way too bright for the original sensor.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2013 01:21AM by tru168.

Hi tru168, I don't think a Hall sensor would work well here. The point of the IR sensor is to allow bed plane compensation to be done by probing the 4 corners of the bed. If you used a Hall sensor, you would need to use 4 magnets under the corners of the bed, and you would have to set the coordinates it uses to place the head very accurately over them. I think the solution is to modulate the IR LED and do phase sensitive detection in software so as to ignore the ambient light.

Hi dc42 .

Yes , most of industrial IR sensors are modulated to prevent unwanted interference. I repaired one of my customer's CNC last week, and that machine using hall sensors for homing, thats why I'm thinking of using magnets and hall sensors.

I bought a Maplin 4Gb Class 10 SDHC card today to use in place of the one supplied, and that has fixed the problem of the Duet not executing config.g on power up.

In summary, the problems I had commissioning were due to two issues:

1. The SD card supplied takes longer to be ready after power up than the firmware allows for. [But I see that other people on this board haven't got the supplied SD card to work with the Duet at all.]

2. Too much ambient light (especially incandescent light) prevents the IR proximity sensor working.

Hello,
I have just tried to comission my green Ormerod - I got one of the limited red ones from RS, but thoght it best to return it in order to get the latest improvements.
Unfortunately my Ormerod still seems to have one of the boards that only work while connected via USB (need to exchange that).
Thank you dc42 for sharing your insights about your commissioning problems with us, as I encountered the same (M555 P2 saved my day).
Everything works fine so far except the IR-sensor. Is the probe supposed to by supplied by 5V? Mine is supplied by 3,3V and I get readings on my Multimeter from 0.26 to about 3.3V when I move a target in front of the probe. But the G31 command allways delivers "0".
Any ideas? Thank you in advance!

There should be M555 P2 and M558 P1 commands in config.g, which should get read at startup. If you had to send M555 P2 manually to get Pronterface talking to it, that means that these commands are not being processed at startup, and you need to replace the SD card. The M558 P1 command is needed to turn on the z-probe. The probe is indeed supplied from 3.3V.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Wow! That was fast!!
Thank you! Now I get readings.
I will buy a new SD this afternoon.
Do you know if there is anything special about that SD card, that I have to care about, or just any conventional micro-SD of the shelf?
I read your threads about v-belt tightening and the new z-probe mount. Amazing stuff, I will print those as soon as I get my machine running!
Thanks again

There is nothing special about the SDHC card, but I would avoid getting a high capacity one. The supplied one is 2Gb. I bought the smallest I could find, which was a 4Gb Maplin Class 10 own brand.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Ive read this topic several times about, and cant help not to ask - regarding the Z probe -> am I going to have to adjust the probe every time before each print because the lightning has changed and the probe is recieving different readings?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2014 05:27AM by Sardi.

Quote
Sardi
Ive read this topic several times about, and cant help not to ask - regarding the Z probe -> am I going to have to adjust the probe every time before each print because the lightning has changed and the probe is recieving different readings?

Have you got DC42's new probe board fitted??

If no then yes

If yes then no

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Quote
Davek0974

Quote
Sardi
Ive read this topic several times about, and cant help not to ask - regarding the Z probe -> am I going to have to adjust the probe every time before each print because the lightning has changed and the probe is recieving different readings?

Have you got DC42's new probe board fitted??

If no then yes

If yes then no

...except that if your Ormerod is in a room lit by fluorescent or LED light, and there is little or no sunlight, then the original probe should give consistent readings.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dc42

Quote
Davek0974
Have you got DC42's new probe board fitted??

If no then yes

If yes then no

...except that if your Ormerod is in a room lit by fluorescent or LED light, and there is little or no sunlight, then the original probe should give consistent readings.

Shot me when Im down Ill say
Thnx, I better get the DC42s new probe board then ..

Quote
Davek0974

Quote
Sardi
Ive read this topic several times about, and cant help not to ask - regarding the Z probe -> am I going to have to adjust the probe every time before each print because the lightning has changed and the probe is recieving different readings?

Have you got DC42's new probe board fitted??

If no then yes

If yes then no

Unfortunately I found that DC’s I.R. Probe wouldn’t work for me…But it could be a clash with the glass I use.
The Original probe works (and I’m currently using it) provided the machine isn’t in direct daylight. I use my printer in a number of different environments, each with different lighting levels.(The printer clocks up 1200miles a month traveling with me, and is used on-board ship for two Weeks of the month). I found I was getting good results by using 4mm Dark Red Float glass and no reflective tape/paper, which was giving reliable, repeatable readings. Normally I find that I can setup the printer, use Z-homing, and 9 out 10 times won’t have to re-adjust it. If I do end up doing it manually, then I get a probe average reading and either enter it manually, or edit the config file.
Kim..

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

Quote
KimBrown
Unfortunately I found that DC’s I.R. Probe wouldn’t work for me…But it could be a clash with the glass I use.
The Original probe works (and I’m currently using it) provided the machine isn’t in direct daylight. I use my printer in a number of different environments, each with different lighting levels.(The printer clocks up 1200miles a month traveling with me, and is used on-board ship for two Weeks of the month). I found I was getting good results by using 4mm Dark Red Float glass and no reflective tape/paper, which was giving reliable, repeatable readings. Normally I find that I can setup the printer, use Z-homing, and 9 out 10 times won’t have to re-adjust it. If I do end up doing it manually, then I get a probe average reading and either enter it manually, or edit the config file.
Kim..

Yes, but again - you changed the glass, DC changed the probe, a change is needed in order to get constant readings from the probe.
Im thinking about getting the probe from DC cause I dont want the nozzle crashing in my bed just because someone passed by the printer and blocked the light source.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2014 07:51AM by Sardi.

Quote
Sardi

Quote
KimBrown
Unfortunately I found that DC’s I.R. Probe wouldn’t work for me…But it could be a clash with the glass I use.
The Original probe works (and I’m currently using it) provided the machine isn’t in direct daylight. I use my printer in a number of different environments, each with different lighting levels.(The printer clocks up 1200miles a month traveling with me, and is used on-board ship for two Weeks of the month). I found I was getting good results by using 4mm Dark Red Float glass and no reflective tape/paper, which was giving reliable, repeatable readings. Normally I find that I can setup the printer, use Z-homing, and 9 out 10 times won’t have to re-adjust it. If I do end up doing it manually, then I get a probe average reading and either enter it manually, or edit the config file.
Kim..

Yes, but again - you changed the glass, DC changed the probe, a change is needed in order to get constant readings from the probe.
Im thinking about getting the probe from DC cause I dont want the nozzle crashing in my bed just because someone passed by the printer and blocked the light source.

I found the original probe unusable, it would vary wildly with room light, daylight, shadows, even if I was standing in the room between the light and printer, I just didn't bother using it.

Since fitting dc's new version I have been able to use home-all for the first time! I am still using the clear glass with Kapton tape and white paper under the glass.

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Hey guys, i just got my ormerod up and running but i hit a snag with the web interface.

I have everything working on pronterface and a little grief with the arduio software (seems a little buggy) but the web interface will let me connect but lists my printer as inactive and is not letting me use anything bar the Gcode/message etc tabs is there something really stupid i have missed.

its connected directly via ethernet/wireless bridge. was thinking it was because it requires a crossover cable but somewhere someone convinced me thats not it will see if i can find a crossover cable but for now does anyone have any ideas?

nistrum, which firmware and web interface versions are you using? Perhaps they are not compatible. You need either RRP official release 0.65e and the web interface from their web site (but keep your extruder retraction speed down until they fix the bug in that release), or my 0.59c-dc42 firmware here [github.com] and web interface 0.80 here [github.com].

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Ahh that might be it, this is fairly out of the box so its probably something like that. let me see if im missing something thanks for that

If you're using the latest files from [github.com] you'll need to update your firmware to 0.65e. It's probably on 0.57a - send M115 to check.

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Hi Ian, thanks DC was right it was the discrepancy from one to the other. was my own fault, looked like the 2 versions matched but i had obviously missed something. i used DCs firmware/interface links and its all working.. thanks for the help guys

Also sorry for hijacking, i had a number of windows open and happened to reply to the wrong one