Red Ormerod's a random system

Hi all

I've been following this forum for a while, without participate, it's been very helpful in some issues, but now I'm stuck with this high entropy machine... it's driving me crazy.
I have built the mechanics in just ten hours, and then came the hard work: setting the system.

I've tried to control the ormerod via Linux Ubuntu, Windows Vista/8, Mac... the machine keep behaving random.

I've tried many firmwares, dc42, oldest, latest, everytime upgrading my SD content to mach the current version, sometimes upgrading the web interface (in my case its really sucks, after moving axes if a try to move extrudes or print or stop a process... it simply stuck).

All the connection have been check, thermistors soldered, resistance and voltages measured, all is looking fine from an electrical point of view, is the firmware/Pronterface that don't work.

Random, let me explain:

1) Axis movements and homing are ALWAYS OK, I mean, never had problems with that. OK
2) Bed heating, stopping, ALWAYS OK, nevere had problems. OK
3) Temperatures reading, hotend and bed work really fine, checked also with a heatgun for be sure. OK

4) Extruder, it moves one time every 20 tries, or even more, even If I set M302 (allow cold movements). Nothing, (this is a big problem, connected to the following). RANDOM
5) Hotend doesn't work, it worked 2 or 3 times (over a week of tries) allowing me only to try extrude a couple of mm of plastic wire, that's all. From the board no voltage when set temperature. RANDOM

What I've done until now:

Upgraded firmware with dc42's latest, middle, oldest, nothing... the behaviour it's the same from 1) to 5).
Tried various Pronterface versions, sometimes from py execution, from exe execution, from Win, from Ubuntu... same as from 1) to 5).
Tried even with various webinterfaces, nothing, from 1) to 5) and even worse if it's possible.
Every time I connect USB (SD alredy in), sometimes I press reset on board after 2 seconds, sometimes not, it's the same, then power on the ATX. The connection is very fast (10 seconds and I can see it on arduino ide serial monitor, or even directily from pronterface).

Can you please tell me what is the known as working toolchain of Firmware (what version, and where is it), Pronterface (what version and where is it)?
If you can please help me as I am now very tired, I don't know if it's a duet board problem (but a couple of times all worked) or to find the right combination of FW version, Pronterface, webinterface.

Thank you very much in advance for your interest

kindest regards,
Simon

Hi Simon,

If the hot end temperature indication really is reliable, then it looks like you have 2 problems:

1. Intermittent connection to hot end. Where did you measure the voltage when you found "From the board no voltage when set temperature"? Depending on the answer, there could be a problem in the 6-pin hot end connector, or with one of the crimp connections at either end of the hot end loom, or with the Duet board. Somebody recently reported a badly-soldered joint on one of the header pins on the Duet.

2. Jammed extruder or intermittent drive to the extruder stepper. Remove the Bowden cable from the extruder. With the power off and no filament in the extruder, does the stepper motor shaft turn freely? If not, does it turn freely if you remove the large gear? If it does turn freely even when there is filament in the extruder, then look at the crimp connections on the extruder wiring loom, and the soldered joints on the extruder connection pins on the back of the Duet. You could also temporarily swap the X axis stepper and extruder stepper connections on the Duet board, then whether then extruder moves properly when you command X axis movements, and vice versa. [Remove power before connecting/disconnecting anything.]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2014 09:25AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dc42
1. Intermittent connection to hot end. Where did you measure the voltage when you found "From the board no voltage when set temperature"? Depending on the answer, there could be a problem in the 6-pin hot end connector, or with one of the crimp connections at either end of the hot end loom, or with the Duet board. Somebody recently reported a badly-soldered joint on one of the header pins on the Duet.

I measured while clicking set temperature on pronterface, no voltage is detected directly on the bottom of the board, the solderings look fine and shiny, I think again there is some problem with the talking between pronterface and Duet.

Quote
dc42
2. Jammed extruder or intermittent drive to the extruder stepper. Remove the Bowden cable from the extruder. With the power off and no filament in the extruder, does the stepper motor shaft turn freely? If not, does it turn freely if you remove the large gear? If it does turn freely even when there is filament in the extruder, then look at the crimp connections on the extruder wiring loom, and the soldered joints on the extruder connection pins on the back of the Duet. You could also temporarily swap the X axis stepper and extruder stepper connections on the Duet board, then whether then extruder moves properly when you command X axis movements, and vice versa. [Remove power before connecting/disconnecting anything.]

Tried to swap between X axis and extruder, the extruder motor works (moving x axis from pronterface), when I swap back up again it doesn't move.
Essentially the buttons Extrude and Reverse on pronterface not seem to be working (no signal is sended to the board).
I tried also with G1 E20, nothing moves.

Thanks very much for your help, is really appreciated.

Regards,
Simon

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2014 11:18AM by rusty81.

Using your firmware (RepRapFirmware-065h-dc42) and pronterface python interface (https://github.com/kliment/Printrun) it doesn't change, still hotend not heating (no voltage on board) and still extrude buttons on pronterface doesn't work.

I don't really get this, because a couple of times it have worked.

__________

Little update, actually the voltage between V+ and V- on the board (hotend heater) is 0V, but between V+ and GND and V- and GND is 12V. If I set or not the heat from pronterface nothing changes.
Hope this help to try find the problem.

Extruder is still not working, I mean the "port" extruder in the board.

Thanks

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2014 12:14PM by rusty81.

Can the board version be the problem? If yes, what can I do, buy another new one?



Thanks very much
Simon

Are you by any chance using the original config.g file with a T0 command in it? If so, then for 0.65 series firmware, you need to replace it by T1. Or send T1 from Pronterface before using the extruder or hot end.

[EDIT: I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, it would explain both problems.]

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2014 01:00PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Oh thank you SO MUCH! You solved my problem! Now all is working, finally!

I'm now starting to print something, I'm using Slicer from a STL file that I found on internet (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:27233/#files) but maybe I'm not understanding how to set the whole things, the plastic come out not in lines but in curls... I've raised the temperature of the head and bed, slowed the movements, slowed the Z height but still in curls and it doesn't stick to the bed... I need to read some tutorial on that.

Anyway, again, thank you very much!

Simon

Some pics would help us to understand exactly what you're saying, but sticking to the bed is a fairly standard problem if the bed isn't heating or the glass isn't clean, or the head is too high (z-axis) off the bed.
If your IR sensor is working fine, there's a section on the RepRapPro website that talks about commissioning the z-axis and calibrating the sensor. You should also calibrate the bed (orthogonal) compensation or ensure that your bed is 100% level - also on the reprappro site.

The manual test for z-axis seems to be to ensure that at Z=0 a piece of standard paper has friction, but isn't jammed onto the bed or sliding around easily. Once that height is correct and the bed is heating and clean you shouldn't have a huge problem with PLA coming off the bed, but you can improve it hugely by using extra hold hairspray or a coating of malt vinegar.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2014 05:32PM by VortyZA.

A simple way to get a decent print height for the z axis would be to use a piece of 80gsm white inkjet paper and put it between the nozzle and heated bed (preferably when bed is on) and slide it around. It should feel a litle bit of a resistance from being wedged between the heated bed and the noozzlebut yet still able to slide around with minimal force applied. Hope that helps!

Hi

I have always had a problem with the paper test, so I use a different method suggested on a forum in the past:

I use an aluminium plate supplied by DaveK0974 and spings under the heated bed to control the corner heights.
This means I can easily change the height until the bed is level, this is in my opinion one of the most important 1st upgrades that should be made to the printer.

I calibrate the z-axis using a 6mm wood drill at 3 points and whilst both hot end and heat bed are at temperature.
Once the bed is mechanically level it takes less than 2 mins each print to check and set the Z axis to the 6mm point.
I have given up on the IR sensor for now but might at a later date go for DCs modulated upgrade.

So, I home the x-axis, then the y-axis.

Then I check the corner nearest the Duet enclosure.
I do this by lowering the nozzle until it is just less than 6mm, my printer is on a slight incline so I can put the drill uphill and resting against the nozzle'
Then I raise the z-axis 0.1mm until the drill rolls under the nozzle. The nozzle is then 6mm above the bed.

I type G92 Z6.0 to set the z-axis to 6mm height, this is very important to let the printer know where the z axis is.

I move to the other corner on that side of the bed
I keep the z axis at 6mm and repeat,
this time changing the heated bed height by tighting the support bolt which is spring loaded.

Then I move to the middle of the other side of the heat bed and do the same for the middle support near the LED.
On my printer the bed is then mechanically level.

When I want to print I just check the bed is level by doing the down hill drill roll test, and then hit print and the level is perfect every time.

Another method which I hope helps.

Hi all,

again thanks for your help guys, I've finally been able to successfully print my first object.
I downloaded nautilus in STL format and converted in Slicer with settings for my Ormerod that I've found on the web.

After the bed compensation its worked really well, I have just few questions of minor priority:

I tried to put my 4 lines of gcode for the bed compensation in a file on the SD card, but when I load it after is finished it simply stuck, continuously giving me back the message "SD printing", "no SD printing"... or something like that, so I decided to put the 4 lines manually every time I start the machine.
My extruder step compensation was the same as the tutorials from Ormerod, M92 E433, this is now in my config.g and works fine.

My question is now, what can I use for model an object? Tried SketchUp but it makes hollow objects, and Slicer doesn't recognize it, telling me that there are gaps... so I've been thinking about AutoCAD 123D or something like that: what do you use?

Another question: as I am quite happy with the filling of the volumes, what can I do (maybe from Slicer) for change the shape of the filling or make it more thick?

Thanks to all of you, you have helped me a lot.

Here is the short video (I'm quite proud of my first print, is like create something from nothing!)


[www.youtube.com]


Regards,
Simon

Have a look at a program called OpenScad, it's a text based cad program.

It looks a bit frightening at first but have a look at the samples to get an idea of what does what.

If you think creating something from nothing was good, just wait for the thrill of printing something you designed yourself in code!

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Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.