First layer issue

Im having this problem with the first layer of my print, it looks to me as though the nozzle is dragging up the plastic that its already put down, its not enough to make the print fail, just ruins the bottom layer. I tried raising the layer height a touch to see if that would help but it just lead to the plastic not adhering properly to the bed. Im currently experimenting with different temperatures to see if that will help at all, but if anyone has any advice it would be greatly appreciated.

I don't know if you're printing ABS or PLA. Do you do anything to improve adhesion to the bed? If you are using ABS, Kapton or PET tape seem to be the way to go. For PLA, it's a fine layer of diluted white glue (4 parts water to 1 part glue).

If you try one of those, and pull back a bit from the bed, you might be OK.

I'm printing with pla, I tried the pva glue method and the same thing happened, as for lifting back from the bed when I do that the plastic always catches on the hotend and drags the print around, the level I'm printing at right now is as high as I can go before this happens. Thanks for your suggestions though

Hi,

I only print with PLA and I get EXACTLY what your picture shows after about a day of printing on kapton tape.
It stops adhering.

I've not used any of the washes or hairsprays etc, I just change my tape once my prints stop sticking properly. It takes about 5 mins.
Your prints will stick so well you'll have to wait for the bed to cool to get them off ;-) The first print onto new tape usually requires a tool!

For my 2p's worth, I'd recommend you try some tape.

One thing with tape, no matter how carefully you lay it down (I don't particularly), you do get stripes from the joins !
Tbh, I don't concentrate that much, I leave a 0.5mm gap between the strips.

I'm going to get a wide roll (2 inch) for my next roll, see if it's still as easy to put down. less stripes !

Cheers

Dave.

PS. My settings :
First layer: bed 70 nozzle 190
Subsequent: bed 57 nozzle 190

@DaveS
I used to replace the Kapton tape often because parts no longer stuck to it but then I read somewhere to clean it thoroughly with acetone before each print and I found that actually works. Now I only replace the Kapton because it gets torn while removing parts that stick too well to it.

Incidentally I found that also for PLA printing on blue tape, rubbing the tape with acetone greatly improves adhesion.

What speed is your first layer?

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Waitaki 3D Printer

i have the exact same problem as shown in your pic but only with 1 type of filament !! I am pretty sure from the pic you are experiencing the same issue
I tried all kinds of temps and extruded amounts and heres what i found > i get the least problems on a highish nozzel temp and low bed temp ( 40C)
i have my extruded amount ( flow in Cura) down at 90%

I suggest you try to print again and while its doing the first layer infill then increase the nozzel temp from you normal setting by 5 degrees then wait a while and see if it works then if needed increase again

In every case ive had if it gets past the first layer it then prints fine ....really weird

Good luck

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2013 08:16AM by bigfilsing.

The only way I managed to stop it from happening was to reduce the flow all the way down to 40%, but then the finished print was very very brittle. My first layer print speed is at 65mm/s. I'll try all these suggestions and come back with the results, thanks for all the help.

Cut that speed in half and see what you get.

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Waitaki 3D Printer

Thanks lister, I think I'll try some acetone too.
I have a small pot I use for welding !

Cheers, Dave.

im still not having much luck and am more and more convinced its a filament issue. It seems to react with the heated bed somehow and almost "boils" on contact with the bed. Very strange.

Im using glass with kapton tape ( works great with all my other filaments including ABS)

Reducing flow seems to help but i guess that in fact it just makes the problem smaller, proportional to the amount of material extruded.
Ill try and post some pics too so you have something to compare.

Are you using an E3D extruder ?? It looks like it in your first post pic ?

Ok I halved the first layer speed, and I saw a very minor improvement, I then increased my bed temperature to 80 degrees and again seen improvement but there's definetly still an issue, I'll try further reductions and increases respectively and come back with results. I haven't got time to apply any kapton tape right now (i have to use the wet method I can't seem to get it stuck with no air bubbles otherwise) but I'll try this too when I do have time.

It's not that hard to apply it without using the wet method.
I simply stick one end down, overlapping the end of the bed by 5mm.
Roll it off the reel across the bed. Cut it off about 5mm past the end of the bed using a Stanley knife.
Lift the tape from that end only, and smooth it down as you re apply it gradually from the other end.

It's like wrapping a present, I don't get loads of air bubbles under the Sellotape when I wrap a present.

Anyway, it should only take 5 mins, I bet you're wasting more than 5 mins on unstuck first layers ?

no huffy ness in this post, just trying to convince you to try it ;-)

cheers,

Dave.

Dave you worry about air bubbles under present selotape ><

Seriously i agree with Dave bit of care and a bit of practice make it a 5 min job . For the odd stubborn air bubble just use a pin to pop it and press down hard.

Regarding the original topic. I have tried every combination of heat . speed and layer adjustment. While they obviously effect the issue i cant resolve it and am now sure it is the filament. I even stripped down my hot end and methodically cleaned it all.

All my other filament , PLA & ABS, works fine


Good luck

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2013 10:34PM by bigfilsing.

I forgot to mention - what are your default extrusion width settings? Try setting them all to zero initially (auto) and see what you get.

stefanjess91 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Im having this problem with the first layer of my
> print, it looks to me as though the nozzle is
> dragging up the plastic that its already put down,
> its not enough to make the print fail, just ruins
> the bottom layer. I tried raising the layer height
> a touch to see if that would help but it just lead
> to the plastic not adhering properly to the bed.
> Im currently experimenting with different
> temperatures to see if that will help at all, but
> if anyone has any advice it would be greatly
> appreciated.

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Waitaki 3D Printer

Have tried it all with PVA, and so far the best is Lemon Juice that you buy in the Lemon looking container. One drop and spread it around with a slightly dampened cloth.

ive made some progress today
As discovered my problem filament is especially sensitive to temp. Couple of degrees make a big difference.
in order to get this to work i have set the heated bed ever so slightly higher then i normally would and adjusted down the extruded amount

The results were a considerable improvement. Seems this filament is sensitive to being scuffed by the extruder whereas my other filament doesnt react the same way.

So stefanjess judging by your photo your temp isnt far off (maybe a tad too hot but tweak that later) Id start by leveling your bed ( looking at the photo it isnt level ...the perimeter skirt is more compressed on the left side than the right) and reducing the extruded amount

Good luck

Ok I FINALLY figured it out. Take the time to make sure the bed is perfectly level, and slow the speed way way way down, I've got mine going at about 5 mm/s, and it's printing perfectly, my bed temp is 80 degrees and I'm extruding at 195, I'm not sure if the temperature has an effect as I've not changed it since I got things working, I'm gonna slowly increase the speed to see what I can get away with. Thanks for all the help, sincerely, and I hope this will help anyone else whos having the same problem. Another thing make sure the nozzle isn't too close to the bed, I have mine about 0.3 mm

Here's a Q, what are you using to slice ?

I use slic3r, you can pick the speed of the first layer, so I run it at 40% of the others.
That was the setting in the reprappro profile for a Huxley, so that's what I stuck with.

Do you mean you print your whole print that slow, or just the first layer ?

cheers

Dave.

Glad to hear you've made progress. Be sure to level your bed when its at operating temp. Makes a big difference on my printer. I guess that's down to the glass as it distorts slightly when heated or maybe its due to the springs that support the bed. Either way setting it at temp is the only way i get decent reliable results.
I'm using some different filament now and no such issues but glad i experienced it so ill know what to do next time something similar happens.

Can be a frustrating learning curve sometimes but still a great hobby.

Good luck

No it's only the first layer I run that slow Dave, after that I just print at my regular speed. Bigfilsing both the spools I have had this issue, I got them off amazon from jet. Where did you source the filament that you had no issues with?

The filament i was having trouble with was off ebay ...3D fabster... black 3mm . I also have a spool of white as well and it prints fine !!

your first level is too low...level Z axis right, and it should be ok.

I had this same issue, could never fix it.
But! Had this problem using a VERY similar colour PLA!
Could be the same (bought from eBay Australia).

To fix the second layer I had to rub each layer down my hand (got hot quick!), but after third layer it was ok... Weird.

I know i'm a bit off topic here but some ppl talked about laying down kapton tape on the glass.. i'm still a newb on the /D printing scheme but here is what i found to be working..

I have a 2" roll of a kapton, use another roll (or in ma case, a 2" roll of masking tape) and use the second roll as a roller. I place the glass on my desk and start the kapton on the desk. I rool the kapton half around the second roll and placing the first roll on top. the sticky side facing the glass.. then roll the second roller on the glass while keeping the first on firmly on top.

its take a bit of pratice but there is no bubbles or miss align tape :-)


my 2¢

J-F