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Duet development news

Posted by dc42 
Re: Duet development news
April 12, 2016 08:31PM
Okay many thanks for the answer. I wasn't afraid that the 0.85 version would be stopped, but it would be the only printer with another controller board for me. I especially like the use of g-codes in the config files so you can use everything which is available for the firmware.
I wanted to use the advantages of the 0.85 for my printer, but better microstepping for example would be even better.
So I will have to see.


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: Duet development news
April 16, 2016 03:35PM
Any rough idea of what the price would be? Right now the duet 0.6 is going for $65 USD. If the duet NG is going to be significantly more, it will help me decide whether to wait or not.
Re: Duet development news
April 16, 2016 04:42PM
The new Duet will be made in the UK just like the Duet 0.8.5, not in China like the Replikeo Duet 0.6 board that costs $65. So it will certainly cost more, but it will be made to a higher quality and it will be properly tested. We will be using ATE to test it, because that is the only way to test a printer electronics board really thoroughly without the cost of testing adding too much to the price. I haven't heard of ATE being used to test any other 3D printer electronics boards - please correct me if you know of one that is.

The Duet 0.8.5 costs £99 in Europe including tax, and $135 from Filastruder in the US. So more than the Replikeo board, but less than the Smoothieboard (the comparable Smoothieboard is the 5XC with added +5V regulator, which costs $175).

Pricing for the new Duet is likely to be a little higher than the Duet 0.8.5, at least initially,



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
April 16, 2016 05:58PM
Thanks for the quick reply.

In that case, I'll get the 0.6, as I have a design ready to buy parts for, and if the NG is that much better I'll upgrade.

I'll definitely keep an eye out thought for updates. 32 bit boards are definitely the way to go.
Re: Duet development news
April 17, 2016 02:35AM
So for me it was clear that the DuetNG will be something about the Duet 0.85. However my printer will have two Extruders so for me it is only Duet 0.85 or NG. Personally I do not like the Smoothieboard, because it uses translated options and no plain G-Codes. Funnily I know people who like this especially, but I am flexible to use every printer command inside the configuration if I want to.


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: Duet development news
April 17, 2016 08:52AM
Quote
Treito
So for me it was clear that the DuetNG will be something about the Duet 0.85. However my printer will have two Extruders so for me it is only Duet 0.85 or NG. Personally I do not like the Smoothieboard, because it uses translated options and no plain G-Codes. Funnily I know people who like this especially, but I am flexible to use every printer command inside the configuration if I want to.

I'm not a fan of the Smoothieboard's board firmware myself (has anyone by chance ported the firmware the Duet uses to the Smoothieboard?). I haven't heard of the translated option though. I have sent G-Codes to the board so I'm guessing it does some sort of translation from G-Code to an internal format or something?
Re: Duet development news
April 17, 2016 09:02AM
The translated options should be only suitable for the configuration file. There you have some sorts of clear words. So the configuration file will be translated to G-code commands. One guy of a FB-group favorizes this behaviour because in that case the configuration file is easier to read.


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
PRZ
Re: Duet development news
April 17, 2016 09:30AM
I find the Smoothieboard configuration file easier to read than RRF one, but ultimately, this is a question of clear documentation.

I think the best documentation is the one which is in the configuration file itself.

The problem yet is as it seems the whole config.g file is loaded in memory, this file shall be maintained to minimal size and problems linked to large config.g file have been discussed a few times in this forum (see Chrishamm issue of DWC).

May be stripping the comments while loading file in memory could help having verbose config files ?

But the major advantage I see in configuration with G-Code is that you could send configuration G-Code while printer is in operation and get instant feedback, which makes tests for tuning printer a lot faster.
Re: Duet development news
April 17, 2016 09:42AM
What's the problem with holding the whole configuration file in memory in the browser whole editing it? Even with verbose comments, it's only a few kbytes long.

I too like being able to change all the configuration options except network settings at run time. I even have a macro file to switch my Ormerod into CoreXY simulation mode for testing firmware.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
PRZ
Re: Duet development news
April 17, 2016 10:36AM
I don't know what is the origin of the problems with long config.g files, but it seems that it is difficult to edit them in the web interface and Chrishamm already mentioned to users with long files to shorten them by stripping some comments.

Also, but that is not a big problem if web editing is complete, when you run M503, the file is truncated.

I stripped info from my config file for those reasons. That is ok for my own use, not quite for the files I publish as I want them to be as exhaustive as possible.
Re: Duet development news
April 17, 2016 10:49AM
Quote
PRZ
I don't know what is the origin of the problems with long config.g files, but it seems that it is difficult to edit them in the web interface and Chrishamm already mentioned to users with long files to shorten them by stripping some comments.

I know an earlier version of the firmware would not let your scroll the config file when editing it so you couldn't reach the end of the file. That problem has since been corrected.


Quote

Also, but that is not a big problem if web editing is complete, when you run M503, the file is truncated.

How big was your file?
PRZ
Re: Duet development news
April 17, 2016 12:32PM
Not remember well, but there was something else than the scrolling, may be due to the method to transfer the file to the web interface, but that may have been modified, as there was many changes in protocols recently.

And for truncated file with M503, as an example this file (which is pretty standard, derived from the Fisher) :
[github.com] - tested on 1.09r dc42, another test on 1.10+4-dc42 gives similar results.
BTW, this file needs some update, which will increase its size. - [edit] Done and moved here : [github.com]

Edition in DWC 1.11 is ok for a file of similar length.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2016 12:51PM by PRZ.
Re: Duet development news
April 17, 2016 06:29PM
I think you will find that with DWC 1.11 and a recent version (1.09z or later) of my or chrishamm's firmware, you can edit a config.g file of any reasonable length in the web interface.

I'll check what the current limit on the size of the M503 respose is. But M503 is redundant if you are using the web interface.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
April 18, 2016 04:36PM
I agree that Smoothie's config file is more readable but being able to modify configs just by sending G-Code is really nice. A compromise would be some sort of user friendly utility or web page that spits out a RepRapFirmware G-Code style config. While it was a bit of a confusion at first the G-Code route isn't all that hard once you get used to it and how often do you really change that stuff after you get it dialed in.
PRZ
Re: Duet development news
April 18, 2016 05:14PM
In the RepRap G-code page, I added a chapter about G-code typical parameters to help to grasp the logic behind :
[reprap.org]
Re: Duet development news
April 22, 2016 10:17AM
WZ9V

Indeed - it is on the TODO list!

Regards

Tony


DuetWifi.: advanced 3d printing electronics
Re: Duet development news
April 22, 2016 06:25PM
David, is there any news about powering board from different sources? Will DuetNG maintain different power sources for heaters/fans/steppers? I think about feeding 12V for heaters and fans (just to utilize existing hardware), but 24V (or even more) for 0.9' stepper drivers.

Second question is about MCU - is new 120MHz ATSAM4E8E with FPU is much faster than older one 84MHz ATSAM3X8E for Deltas with their complex math? It seems that you have optimized firmware for older versions of the Duet, to get it to work correctly with a 0.9' steppers at high speeds on your Delta.

Also I will be happy if DuetNG will have more general-purpose MOSFETs for additional fans, LED-lighting and so on.
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 02:56AM
We don't have any plans to change the power arrangements on the Duet NG, so it will be optimised to run from a single power input just like the Duet 0.8.5. There is nothing to stop you connecting the +ve side of heaters and fans to a separate power supply instead of back to the board if you want to use different voltages. It isn't worth us making the board larger to provide another power input, because the number of people wanting to use more than one power supply is so small. If you are spending £100 or so on electronics, IMO there is little reason not to also spend £3 to upgrade your hot end heater and £4 to upgrade your hot end fan to 24V. That's what I did when I changed my delta to 24V.

The new processor is somewhat faster than the ATSAM3X8E, but we have also made other changes to make it easier for us to generate stepper motor pulses faster than on the existing Duet.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 03:07AM
I see that in a similar way. My own printer design will use 24 volts, too. If you buy the components from the beginning suitable for the voltage there's no big difference in price. However an illumination could be directly connected to the power supply. I don't see any reason to run the motors at a different voltage than the fans. Especially the heated bed benefits from the higher voltage.


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 06:46AM
I wonder how many people actually run dual power supplies? I guess you need physically two, I've never seen a 12/24V unit. RAMPS-FD has 3 power inputs, that seems unnecessary and inconvenient for the majority of users. I get that some people will want to tinker or run custom setups with multiple power rails, but there are several ways to achieve that without having it directly on the main controller.

I think single power rail is simpler and cheaper, and covers 99% of users.

I am looking forward to DuetNG, an M4F should be a great advance. I am also looking at Cortex M7, ST now have some with double precision FPU.


What is Open Source?
What is Open Source Hardware?
Open Source in a nutshell: the Four Freedoms
CC BY-NC is not an Open Source license
PRZ
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 07:42AM
I already written that, but I run two deltas:
D-Box, 24V, controlled fan 5V, utility fans 12V, hotend fan 24v, nearly dead, will be replaced by 5V fan
Lily, 19V, controlled fan 5V, hotend fan 5V, utility fan 12V (adjusted to 10V), future heatbed 12V.

Given my bad experiences on Fisher, I was absolutely willing to have quality silent fan for the hotends and part fan and choose Sunon 'Maglev' fans.
in 25mm, they don't exist in 24V and in 30mm, they are difficult to find and price is outrageous, three times the 5V version.
19V power supplies block are a good choice for simple printers, but don't hope finding any fan in that voltage.

The original D-Box hotend fan is something frequently supplied with hotends, a high speed siren with expected life of not much more than 100h, so the replacement was bought before the failure.
I get the point not having 12V on a 24V machine, but 5V IS available and widen the choice for the controlled fans.
At the very minimum, the controlled fan LED rail shall be disconnectable to be able to supply in 5V without tricky wiring.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2016 08:11AM by PRZ.


Pierre

- Safety [reprap.org]
- Embedded help system for Duet and RepRap Firmware [forums.reprap.org]
- Enclosed delta printers Lily [rouzeau.net] and Lily Big [rouzeau.net]
- OpenScad delta printer simulator [github.com]
- 3D printing on my site [www.rouzeau.net]
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 08:55AM
One thing that it could be good to consider is to be able to resume prints on every layer. I mean sometimes i got a fail during print but i can resume it loosing some layers ( it depends on how much later you can understand the failure)

To be more specific let's say that i have a failure on 5th layer. until i realise ( a camera watch on the fly the spools) the printing goes to 7th layer. So if i could resume the print back on 5th it would be no damage at all .


RePrapPro Mendel 3
Duet 0.8.5 firmware 1.19
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 09:13AM
In regards to power supplies, I am running a RasPi to provide a webcam and a TP-Link nano router for a wireless connection. They each use 5 volts. I know there is 5v on the Duet, but how much current is available for external use like this? On the new board, it might be helpful if the onboard 5v could provide up to 1A for external use.
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 11:00AM
Alternatively you could use a little 5v regulator like this one from Polou. Cheap, efficient and runs cool, even at full current. They also do 2.5A ones for a little extra money.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2016 02:04PM by David J.
PRZ
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 11:23AM
On my large delta, for 5V supply I am using a 25W aluminium encased stepdown converter. (search "24V/5V stepdown converter 25W" on ebay)
It is way overkill for the duty, but for the price (7USD shipping included), you get a very rugged unit, already wired, which will never overheat

[www.ebay.com]

[edit]
The same unit, 6USD , shipping included:
[www.ebay.com]

Installed:


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2016 11:48AM by PRZ.


Pierre

- Safety [reprap.org]
- Embedded help system for Duet and RepRap Firmware [forums.reprap.org]
- Enclosed delta printers Lily [rouzeau.net] and Lily Big [rouzeau.net]
- OpenScad delta printer simulator [github.com]
- 3D printing on my site [www.rouzeau.net]

Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 11:37AM
I have used DC/DC converters to get 5v. I was just thinking it would be a lot nicer if a larger 5v regulator could be put on the board since there is already one and not have to deal with the extra parts.
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 12:19PM
The onboard 5V is provided by a BUCK not a regulator because a regulator from 24 down to 5V would dissipate a lot of heat and require more board space. We don't plan to provide enough 5V on the board to allow for Raspberry Pi/Cameras etc to be powered by the onboard 5V.

Cheers

Tony


DuetWifi.: advanced 3d printing electronics
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 12:22PM
Quote
T3P3
The onboard 5V is provided by a BUCK not a regulator because a regulator from 24 down to 5V would dissipate a lot of heat and require more board space. We don't plan to provide enough 5V on the board to allow for Raspberry Pi/Cameras etc to be powered by the onboard 5V.

Cheers

Tony

Thanks for the info. So just to be safe, how much power can the 5V on the Duet 0.8.5 provide of external use?
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 12:36PM
Hi ElmoC

The BUCK is a Allegro A4403 which has a maximum rating of 2A

If you look at this blog post it shows the testing done on a 0.6 - but the BUCK circuit is very similar:
[blog.think3dprint3d.com]

As you can see it 1.5A draw on 5V its now at ~60C

The amount of 5V that is used by the Duet varies, for example if you have a PanelDue plugged in - the LCD backlight draws 5V which depends on the screen size. The amount the 3.3V rectifier draws depends on the 3.3V load (how many additional things you have on 3.3V such as PanelDue,Duex4, Ir probe etc) but could be up to 500mA on startup.

So there is some spare, especially if you dont have a PanelDue LCD to power, however how much depends on your setup.

Cheers

Tony
Re: Duet development news
April 23, 2016 12:41PM
Quote
T3P3
So there is some spare, especially if you dont have a PanelDue LCD to power, however how much depends on your setup.

So I have measured the current used by the TP-Link and it is less than 150ma. It sounds like I should be fine powering it from the board since I don't have the Panel. I haven't measured the Pi/Cam but pretty sure that would put it over the limit.
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