E3D V6 clone quality ? February 06, 2016 05:21AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 198 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 06, 2016 06:24AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 2,470 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 06, 2016 06:29AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 528 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 06, 2016 08:25AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 5,780 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 06, 2016 01:59PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 550 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 06, 2016 11:02PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 4 |
Quote
the_digital_dentist
I'm still not sure which is the 0.5mm nozzle and I don't have any way to measure the hole sizes directly to see if they are close to the advertised sizes.
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 08, 2016 04:42PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 978 |
Quote
jinx
get the best you can afford
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 08, 2016 08:11PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 537 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 05:55AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 550 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 09:00AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 199 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 09:15AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 211 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 09:44AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 550 |
I disagree, that money is needed to continue doing business and doing research like [e3d-online.com]Quote
Govahnator
i think the original is way overpriced ( i have the original 1 v5 and 2 v6's as well).
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 09:56AM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 537 |
Quote
Frans@France
I disagree, that money is needed to continue doing business and doing research like [e3d-online.com]Quote
Govahnator
i think the original is way overpriced ( i have the original 1 v5 and 2 v6's as well).
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 11:17AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 199 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 11:37AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 5,780 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 12:03PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 537 |
Quote
the_digital_dentist
The problem here is that people are unable to distinguish between quality goods and stuff that isn't when it looks the same. That's OK for handbags or scarves or something that doesn't have to function precisely, but in a 3D printer, ALL the parts have to work properly. Most people have crap printers and don't actually have any experience with one that works well, so for them the $10 cloned hot-end is a good one because it's cheap and they don't know any better. They are swimming in a cesspool of cheap stuff that barely works. They're used to unclogging the hot-end after every print and they think it's normal just like they thought it was normal to reboot Windows 98 (and XP) every hour or so to keep it working.
There's no guarantee that a "genuine original" product is "all that and a bag of chips". I bought a budaschnozzle (a design as ridiculous as its name!!) a couple years ago because people said it was great. After I received it I realized it was one of the dumbest hot-end designs ever. Heatsink fins on a teflon tube? Wood parts right next to a heater that runs >200C? Clearly the designer had no idea what they were doing. The lesson I learned was that you can't trust most reviews and you can't trust the designers to know what they are doing. You have to educate yourself and use your own critical eye to determine what's good and what's not.
If you're making hot-ends that sell for $60, you're not going to sell them to any of the vast majority of people who refuse to pay more than $300 for a printer. If you thought you were, your business plan is flawed. The Chinese cloners and kit makers figured out that people care about cost more than they care about whether the thing works and more than they care about the time they're going to waste trying to make chicken salad (a good 3D print) out of chicken shit (a $300 printer).
If you designed a hot-end that sells for $60 and you're whining about the cheap clones stealing your business, you are charging too much and/or you are not marketing it properly and educating 3D printing enthusiasts about why your hot-end is better than the cheap knock-offs. If you can't get your price down, quit trying to sell the part to people who buy $300 printers. You can't play in that space. You have to go higher end, and target the much smaller market of people/companies who spend $1000 and up for a printer. Tell them about quality of the parts, about the better print quality, about increased reliability, and after purchase support, then make sure you deliver on all the promises. Be forewarned, those people tend to be very critical...
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 12:17PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 5,780 |
Quote
reifsnyderb
You are absolutely correct. A person's time has no value, machine tools are so cheap that they are practically free, utilities have no cost, shipping is free, taxes are nil, etc., etc., etc. ...
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 12:19PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 268 |
Quote
reifsnyderb
You are absolutely correct. A person's time has no value, machine tools are so cheap that they are practically free, utilities have no cost, shipping is free, taxes are nil, etc., etc., etc. Hey, running a business is so cheap that all products should be given away. I can't argue with that at all.
Ok. I am done.
Quote
the_digital_dentist
The problem here is that people are unable to distinguish between quality goods and stuff that isn't when it looks the same. That's OK for handbags or scarves or something that doesn't have to function precisely, but in a 3D printer, ALL the parts have to work properly. Most people have crap printers and don't actually have any experience with one that works well, so for them the $10 cloned hot-end is a good one because it's cheap and they don't know any better. They are swimming in a cesspool of cheap stuff that barely works. They're used to unclogging the hot-end after every print and they think it's normal just like they thought it was normal to reboot Windows 98 (and XP) every hour or so to keep it working.
There's no guarantee that a "genuine original" product is "all that and a bag of chips". I bought a budaschnozzle (a design as ridiculous as its name!!) a couple years ago because people said it was great. After I received it I realized it was one of the dumbest hot-end designs ever. Heatsink fins on a teflon tube? Wood parts right next to a heater that runs >200C? Clearly the designer had no idea what they were doing. The lesson I learned was that you can't trust most reviews and you can't trust the designers to know what they are doing. You have to educate yourself and use your own critical eye to determine what's good and what's not.
If you're making hot-ends that sell for $60, you're not going to sell them to any of the vast majority of people who refuse to pay more than $300 for a printer. If you thought you were, your business plan is flawed. The Chinese cloners and kit makers figured out that people care about cost more than they care about whether the thing works and more than they care about the time they're going to waste trying to make chicken salad (a good 3D print) out of chicken shit (a $300 printer).
If you designed a hot-end that sells for $60 and you're whining about the cheap clones stealing your business, you are charging too much and/or you are not marketing it properly and educating 3D printing enthusiasts about why your hot-end is better than the cheap knock-offs. If you can't get your price down, quit trying to sell the part to people who buy $300 printers. You can't play in that space. You have to go higher end, and target the much smaller market of people/companies who spend $1000 and up for a printer. Tell them about quality of the parts, about the better print quality, about increased reliability, and after purchase support, then make sure you deliver on all the promises. Be forewarned, those people tend to be very critical...
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 01:16PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 978 |
Quote
reifsnyderb
You are absolutely correct. A person's time has no value, machine tools are so cheap that they are practically free, utilities have no cost, shipping is free, taxes are nil, etc., etc., etc. Hey, running a business is so cheap that all products should be given away. I can't argue with that at all.
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 02:02PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 550 |
Could not disagree more! The pure and simple fact that the clones and knockoffs are available in large quantities or beter flood the market means that it becomes harder and harder to understand the price difference. So while the market would support the higher price and beter quality it's unaware of the reasons. So like [the_digital_dentist ] is sayingQuote
Koko76
If you don't get that you can't make money in a market that won't support it and won't embrace your quality you should be done.
Quote
Most people have crap printers and don't actually have any experience with one that works well, so for them the $10 cloned hot-end is a good one because it's cheap and they don't know any better. They are swimming in a cesspool of cheap stuff that barely works
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 02:52PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 268 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? February 09, 2016 03:39PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 260 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? May 26, 2016 04:28PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 2 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? May 26, 2016 06:00PM |
Admin Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 1,063 |
Quote
Jata
I will be begrudgingly ordering an authentic E3D V6 just because I don't want to have to mess with retooling it on my first build.
But seriously, $80 USD for a small CNC'ed piece of aluminum, a few wires, and a fan....
If it were something more than a heatsink with a hole through it you could make the argument that design and engineering are a significant factor in the cost.
And to say that the clones are stifling innovation is just absurd (in this specific case.) If it were an engineering feat of some sort they would have filed for a patent.
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? May 26, 2016 08:12PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,873 |
Quote
Jata
I will be begrudgingly ordering an authentic E3D V6 just because I don't want to have to mess with retooling it on my first build.
But seriously, $80 USD for a small CNC'ed piece of aluminum, a few wires, and a fan....
If it were something more than a heatsink with a hole through it you could make the argument that design and engineering are a significant factor in the cost.
And to say that the clones are stifling innovation is just absurd (in this specific case.) If it were an engineering feat of some sort they would have filed for a patent.
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? May 26, 2016 10:34PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 537 |
Quote
Jata
I will be begrudgingly ordering an authentic E3D V6 just because I don't want to have to mess with retooling it on my first build.
But seriously, $80 USD for a small CNC'ed piece of aluminum, a few wires, and a fan....
If it were something more than a heatsink with a hole through it you could make the argument that design and engineering are a significant factor in the cost.
And to say that the clones are stifling innovation is just absurd (in this specific case.) If it were an engineering feat of some sort they would have filed for a patent.
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? May 26, 2016 10:39PM |
Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 537 |
Quote
JamesK
...snip...
The E3D V6 is IMHO (and with apologies to Brian) the best hotend currently available to the DIY market, and it almost certainly took man-years of effort to develop.
...snip...
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? May 27, 2016 12:15AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 177 |
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? May 27, 2016 04:33AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 356 |
Quote
aussiephil
Wow....
To the OP....... E3D V6 Clone quality.... Poor to reasonable based on all the threads..... so highly variable would be the correct answer.
Some attitudes expressed and shown in the thread will absolutely ensure I don't buy certain products now or in the future.
I didn't buy a clone for my new printer despite the lure of a cheap price and actually ended up buying a DyzEnd hot end that has actually been paired with an E3D titan at the moment...... but then my new printer build is valued well north of 1k and likely is going over 2k before I finish so why try and save a few pennies on a clone.
However the person building the cheapest possible printer will NEVER lash out and buy a non clone unit so why get worked up...... better to educate where possible then shrug the shoulders and move on...
One thing missed in many of these threads but demonstrated by a couple people in another hobby of mine is to actually pair with Chinese manufacturing and imposing your own QA to get a quality product that you can then flood the market with.
Re: E3D V6 clone quality ? May 27, 2016 10:46AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 3,525 |