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Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit

Posted by Miamicraft 
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 01, 2016 05:24PM
WOW, WOW and WOW again. I finally made a print.

Couldn't have done it without this forum, so all thanks to you guys for the problems and cures you all have had.

And here it is First Print

Then I decided to try a new effector, and HERE it is.

None of them are perfect in any way but it's a start, more than I had 2 days ago.

Now I have a couple of questions for you all,
First is....how tight should the belts be ? because 1 of mine is slipping and it sounds horrible.
My top frame is all the way to the top of the tower posts and my belts are all pretty tight (I don't want to risk snapping 1 by tightening it too much).

And second......when in pronterface and I click on X home, all 3 axis go home. Same happens when I click Y or Z, all 3 go home.
I have attached my config file, if anyone can see anything wrong I would appreciate the info.

Thanks again to all of you that helped me. You should be proud of yourselves, I know I am.

Ant
Attachments:
open | download - Configuration.h (31.5 KB)
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 01, 2016 05:30PM
Quote
Electric ant
WOW, WOW and WOW again. I finally made a print.

Couldn't have done it without this forum, so all thanks to you guys for the problems and cures you all have had.

And here it is First Print

Then I decided to try a new effector, and HERE it is.

None of them are perfect in any way but it's a start, more than I had 2 days ago.

Now I have a couple of questions for you all,
First is....how tight should the belts be ? because 1 of mine is slipping and it sounds horrible.
My top frame is all the way to the top of the tower posts and my belts are all pretty tight (I don't want to risk snapping 1 by tightening it too much).

And second......when in pronterface and I click on X home, all 3 axis go home. Same happens when I click Y or Z, all 3 go home.
I have attached my config file, if anyone can see anything wrong I would appreciate the info.

Thanks again to all of you that helped me. You should be proud of yourselves, I know I am.

Ant

Congratulations! The belts should be about bass string tight, can't tell the exact pitch winking smiley I think single axis homing is for cartesians printers, where it makes more sense and poses less danger, not deltas, so don't worry about that.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 02, 2016 05:04AM
Quote
hacker
Quote
Electric ant
....how tight should the belts be ? because 1 of mine is slipping and it sounds horrible.
My top frame is all the way to the top of the tower posts and my belts are all pretty tight (I don't want to risk snapping 1 by tightening it too much).

And second......when in pronterface and I click on X home, all 3 axis go home. Same happens when I click Y or Z, all 3 go home.
I have attached my config file, if anyone can see anything wrong I would appreciate the info.

The belts should be about bass string tight, can't tell the exact pitch winking smiley I think single axis homing is for cartesians printers, where it makes more sense and poses less danger, not deltas, so don't worry about that.

My belts are no so tight, actually. Definitely not as bass string. I would say they are loose a bit. But they are not slipping at all. If they would slip the layers will be shifted or effector will hit an object, or some other "disasters" will be happen.

As for homing in pronterface, it's normal for deltas. Deltas do not have individual axis homing. Because if only one carriage is homing, the effector could go outside of printing area and crash to a tower or exceed angle limits of rot ends and broke them.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 02, 2016 05:39AM
Quote
GrAndAG
Quote
hacker
Quote
Electric ant
....how tight should the belts be ? because 1 of mine is slipping and it sounds horrible.
My top frame is all the way to the top of the tower posts and my belts are all pretty tight (I don't want to risk snapping 1 by tightening it too much).

And second......when in pronterface and I click on X home, all 3 axis go home. Same happens when I click Y or Z, all 3 go home.
I have attached my config file, if anyone can see anything wrong I would appreciate the info.

The belts should be about bass string tight, can't tell the exact pitch winking smiley I think single axis homing is for cartesians printers, where it makes more sense and poses less danger, not deltas, so don't worry about that.

My belts are no so tight, actually. Definitely not as bass string. I would say they are loose a bit. But they are not slipping at all. If they would slip the layers will be shifted or effector will hit an object, or some other "disasters" will be happen.

As for homing in pronterface, it's normal for deltas. Deltas do not have individual axis homing. Because if only one carriage is homing, the effector could go outside of printing area and crash to a tower or exceed angle limits of rot ends and broke them.

Well, yes, if they're slipping it sounds more like some other problem, unless they're really loose.

I don't think single axis homing could result in crashing into a tower, but breaking rods this way or another is quite possible…
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 02, 2016 04:10PM
Quote
hacker
Quote
GrAndAG
Quote
hacker
Quote
Electric ant
....how tight should the belts be ? because 1 of mine is slipping and it sounds horrible.
My top frame is all the way to the top of the tower posts and my belts are all pretty tight (I don't want to risk snapping 1 by tightening it too much).

And second......when in pronterface and I click on X home, all 3 axis go home. Same happens when I click Y or Z, all 3 go home.
I have attached my config file, if anyone can see anything wrong I would appreciate the info.

The belts should be about bass string tight, can't tell the exact pitch winking smiley I think single axis homing is for cartesians printers, where it makes more sense and poses less danger, not deltas, so don't worry about that.

My belts are no so tight, actually. Definitely not as bass string. I would say they are loose a bit. But they are not slipping at all. If they would slip the layers will be shifted or effector will hit an object, or some other "disasters" will be happen.

As for homing in pronterface, it's normal for deltas. Deltas do not have individual axis homing. Because if only one carriage is homing, the effector could go outside of printing area and crash to a tower or exceed angle limits of rot ends and broke them.

I don't think single axis homing could result in crashing into a tower...

It's easy, actually. See the photo. If I pull right carriage upper, the effector goes exactly into the tower. winking smiley



That's why firmware homes all carriages simultaneously.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2016 04:12PM by GrAndAG.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 02, 2016 04:30PM
Quote
GrAndAG
Quote
hacker
Quote
GrAndAG
Quote
hacker
Quote
Electric ant
....how tight should the belts be ? because 1 of mine is slipping and it sounds horrible.
My top frame is all the way to the top of the tower posts and my belts are all pretty tight (I don't want to risk snapping 1 by tightening it too much).

And second......when in pronterface and I click on X home, all 3 axis go home. Same happens when I click Y or Z, all 3 go home.
I have attached my config file, if anyone can see anything wrong I would appreciate the info.

The belts should be about bass string tight, can't tell the exact pitch winking smiley I think single axis homing is for cartesians printers, where it makes more sense and poses less danger, not deltas, so don't worry about that.

My belts are no so tight, actually. Definitely not as bass string. I would say they are loose a bit. But they are not slipping at all. If they would slip the layers will be shifted or effector will hit an object, or some other "disasters" will be happen.

As for homing in pronterface, it's normal for deltas. Deltas do not have individual axis homing. Because if only one carriage is homing, the effector could go outside of printing area and crash to a tower or exceed angle limits of rot ends and broke them.

I don't think single axis homing could result in crashing into a tower...

It's easy, actually. See the photo. If I pull right carriage upper, the effector goes exactly into the tower. winking smiley

[attachment 73749 20160303_000526_crop.jpg]

That's why firmware homes all carriages simultaneously.

Convincing ;-) You're right.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 03, 2016 04:00AM
Single axis homing can even crash the nozzle into the bed, if you'd send the command while the effector is down. ( Worst case scenario )
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 03, 2016 04:02AM
Quote
o_lampe
Single axis homing can even crash the nozzle into the bed, if you'd send the command while the effector is down. ( Worst case scenario )

I'm not asking for picture ;-)
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 03, 2016 05:20AM
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hacker
Quote
o_lampe
Single axis homing can even crash the nozzle into the bed, if you'd send the command while the effector is down. ( Worst case scenario )

I'm not asking for picture ;-)

I've sold my delta, so no picture.

But try out this scenario:
Move the effector to the opposite side of the x-tower ( or any other ) then drop the nozzle a few mm above the bed.
Now try to home only the x-carrier by hand. You will hit the bed immediately.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 03, 2016 05:52AM
Quote
o_lampe
Quote
hacker
Quote
o_lampe
Single axis homing can even crash the nozzle into the bed, if you'd send the command while the effector is down. ( Worst case scenario )

I'm not asking for picture ;-)

I've sold my delta, so no picture.

But try out this scenario:
Move the effector to the opposite side of the x-tower ( or any other ) then drop the nozzle a few mm above the bed.
Now try to home only the x-carrier by hand. You will hit the bed immediately.

I actually could imagine the scenario, I'm not sure why I failed to see the way to crash into the tower, but I couldn't resist saying I'm not asking for picture for the worst case scenario ;-)

Why did you sell your delta if you don't mine me asking? Disappointed in deltas? Got bored? Decided to go for something different? Just curious.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 03, 2016 02:56PM
Thanks for all the comments guys, I figured out the single axis homing a few hours after I put post on.
it's just that I saw this video [www.dropbox.com] by CrisCG showing the rod ends binding, and you can hear a single mouse click then the head moves in front of a tower.
With this being my first experience with a 3D printer I thought this would work similar to "Normal" 3D printers with regard to axis homing, stupid of me really when they look nothing alike.
Anyway, I then remembered about the custom buttons in pronterface (#pface) and thought there must be other ways to control it like that even if your not using #pface.

I would like to give a personnel thank you to GrAndAG for your help,
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GrAndAG

Motors are usually whistling a bit when they are powered. It's normal for stepper drives.
When carriages stop moving, the firmware still provides a power to motors for a while to fix the position of the effector. So, motors can continue whistling when they are not moving. You can press "Motors Off" button in Pronterface to actual power them off instantly.
As for strange Y-axis behavior, it could be fault driver. Try to change it to the spare one.

I thought there was something wrong with my axis motors, my extruder moter has always been quiet.
As it turn out the driver I had in the Y axis is faulty, I tried it in the X axis slot and it did the same as it did with the Y axis.
I don't think I would have guessed that ever.

And another thank you to CrisCG for your help as well.
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CrisCG
I think I know what your problem is. Is your slic3r configured for a circular print surface? This happened to me also, the printer was trying to print at x100 y100, that's roughly the center of a Cartesian printer.

The bed area of my #pface is displayed as round and I couldn't find how to make it square again, so I presumed it had been set by the slic3r settings.
I rechecked the settings in slic3r 1.2.9 and it was set for a square bed, so I set it to circular with a 220mm diameter.
Quote
CrisCG
I hope you're not using the supplied metal rods, you'll pull your hair out even more. You'll probably pull some hair out with the calibration also. In theory all seems easy, but i found that in practice it's a nightmare

For now I am using metal rods and ends but waiting for delivery of Traxxas 5347 rod ends next week.
As for the calibration, mine is still in need of TLC so I will have another go when I get traxxas ends. Although, its not too bad ATM bot I can only print in a 50 - 60mm radius because of these stupid big dumb metal rod ands that are not good this or any 3D printer.
My bed is spirit level straight but when head is in centre at 0.1mm and I move it all the way to centre left, it is then 0.7mm from bed and 0.5mm all the way to centre right.
So from approx. -X30 to -X85 the head raises up 0.6mm. These metal ends are the cause.

Anyway, it's working now and it's running ok for me for now as I don't need anything big printing yet. I will have it calibrated when I need it to be.

And thank to everyone else here, your problems and solutions have kept me going this far, and I'm glad it did.
Thanks again guys.

Ant
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 03, 2016 08:00PM
Quote
Electric ant

My bed is spirit level straight but when head is in centre at 0.1mm and I move it all the way to centre left, it is then 0.7mm from bed and 0.5mm all the way to centre right.
So from approx. -X30 to -X85 the head raises up 0.6mm. These metal ends are the cause.

This is usually caused by an incorrect delta radius. You need to fiddle with the delta_smooth_rod_offset in your firmware until the effector doesn't raise up or dip down at the edges.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 04, 2016 03:17AM
I have installed the E3D V6 hotend, with a new efector, new fan mount and carbon rods with traxxas end rods. A big improvement. I will probably have to modify the stock carriages or just make a backplate for them, that will make it less woobly.

But, i'm still having problems with the first layer. Do you use anything on the bed for better first layer adherence? I heat the bed to 60 and the hotend to 210 for PLA. The first layer doesn't stick at all. I know that you can use a lot of things, like hairspray, gluestick, blue tape, kapton tape... but i've seen people do this on non headted build surfaces. Shouldn't PLA printing be a piece of cake with the heated bed? Or that's just what i imagined it would be. What is your experience? Does turning the fan off for the first 1-2 layer help?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2016 03:20AM by CrisCG.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 04, 2016 03:54AM
Quote
CrisCG
I have installed the E3D V6 hotend, with a new efector, new fan mount and carbon rods with traxxas end rods. A big improvement. I will probably have to modify the stock carriages or just make a backplate for them, that will make it less woobly.

But, i'm still having problems with the first layer. Do you use anything on the bed for better first layer adherence? I heat the bed to 60 and the hotend to 210 for PLA. The first layer doesn't stick at all. I know that you can use a lot of things, like hairspray, gluestick, blue tape, kapton tape... but i've seen people do this on non headted build surfaces. Shouldn't PLA printing be a piece of cake with the heated bed? Or that's just what i imagined it would be. What is your experience? Does turning the fan off for the first 1-2 layer help?

I normally print first layer without the fan. it's possible to get it to adhere to plain glass if your first layer height and extrusion are well tuned and you lay the first layer slowly. That said, I almost never print on the clean glass. I have recently bought 3dlac spray a while ago and it seems to work great for me and you don't need to use it before each print.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 04, 2016 08:29AM
thank you hacker. will order a 3d lac spary can. but, until then, looks like glue stick and a bit of hair spray on top works best for me.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 04, 2016 10:28AM
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CrisCG
thank you hacker. will order a 3d lac spary can. but, until then, looks like glue stick and a bit of hair spray on top works best for me.

Gluestick alone worked for me too. So did hairspray, but a bit worse. But that was a while ago and I'm not sure if it's not due to not well-calibrated bed (that was on prusa i3 with manual bed leveling and pronounced lack of patiencewinking smiley).
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 04, 2016 11:37AM
Seriously, get a PEI sheet or a PrintBite sheet, and stick it to your aluminium bed. Best upgrade you can do to the printer.

There's no preparation needed. No tape, no hairspray, no glue, no ABS juice, no glop, no slop.

Just press "Print" and the prints stick.



But for now, just buy some blue painters tape and use that for PLA. You don't even need to heat the bed. Get blue tape (it's that colour to show that it doesn't stick to paint very hard, so you don't pull off the undercoat when you take the tape off a room). It has a waxy coating that PLA just loves.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 04, 2016 06:59PM
I have only printed small things so far because my bed doesn't register as level due to metal ends and I am waiting for traxxas parts in post.
I have only used blue tape so far and haven't had any problems yet, I expect problems when I start printing bigger things
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 05, 2016 05:35AM
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Electric ant
I have only used blue tape so far and haven't had any problems yet, I expect problems when I start printing bigger things
No problem with blue tape and bigger prints. The only problem is... the bigger print is - more difficult to tear it off. smiling smiley
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 05, 2016 05:54AM
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GrAndAG
Quote
Electric ant
I have only used blue tape so far and haven't had any problems yet, I expect problems when I start printing bigger things
No problem with blue tape and bigger prints. The only problem is... the bigger print is - more difficult to tear it off. smiling smiley

Sometimes bigger print tears off the tape from bed. I think happened once to me. And once with kapton and abs with not so big print.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 05, 2016 08:10AM
When I remove my prints, I peel the tape off and the printed item comes off with the tape (most of the time) then just peel the tape off the print.

On another note, can anyone tell me if the sintron rods will fit in the taxxas 5347 rod ends. My rod ends should be here on Monday.
if they don't fit, I will have to buy a full traxxas kit (carbon rods and more rod ends).

@nebbian

Quote
nebbian
Quote
Electric Ant
My bed is spirit level straight but when head is in centre at 0.1mm and I move it all the way to centre left, it is then 0.7mm from bed and 0.5mm all the way to centre right.
So from approx. -X30 to -X85 the head raises up 0.6mm. These metal ends are the cause.
This is usually caused by an incorrect delta radius. You need to fiddle with the delta_smooth_rod_offset in your firmware until the effector doesn't raise up or dip down at the edges.

In my case, you are right and wrong. The smooth rod offset has brought the left side down but not the right.
The right side is due to the metal rod ends from the X axis pushing on the Y axis rod ends so the left side of the effector drops a little bit and you can see that the hothead is not stood up straight, but leaning to the left, therefore pushing head tip slightly closer to heatbed.
Hopefully traxxas ends will fix this problem then I can move on to the next one (whatever that may be).
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 05, 2016 08:41AM
Quote
Electric ant
When I remove my prints, I peel the tape off and the printed item comes off with the tape (most of the time) then just peel the tape off the print.
Hm... I'm printing on the same piece of tape almost 2 months already. More than 50 objects actually. And the tape is still providing good adhesion (I print with PLA). I remove objects by hand or using pliers, trying to not rip the tape.

Quote
Electric ant
On another note, can anyone tell me if the sintron rods will fit in the taxxas 5347 rod ends. My rod ends should be here on Monday.
if they don't fit, I will have to buy a full traxxas kit (carbon rods and more rod ends).
Theoretically, yes. They both are M4. But I suggest to move to carbon rods, as they are much lighter and stronger. They can be bought separately, at least I purchased rods and ends from different sellers on aliexpress.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2016 08:43AM by GrAndAG.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 05, 2016 12:21PM
Quote
Electric ant

In my case, you are right and wrong. The smooth rod offset has brought the left side down but not the right.
The right side is due to the metal rod ends from the X axis pushing on the Y axis rod ends so the left side of the effector drops a little bit and you can see that the hothead is not stood up straight, but leaning to the left, therefore pushing head tip slightly closer to heatbed.
Hopefully traxxas ends will fix this problem then I can move on to the next one (whatever that may be).

eye popping smiley I stand corrected smiling smiley
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 05, 2016 08:10PM
You can also buy the carbon fibre tube in ~1m lengths from various composite fabrication suppliers - Pultruded 4mm ID tube - often sold for kites.Cut carefully and avoid the carbon dust. (I use a dremel and a vacuum cleaner ).
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 06, 2016 01:13AM
I'm enjoying the prints in PLA. I just use a mist of hair spray, the bed looks almost like it has nothing on it, because i spray a fine layer on the bed. Prints stick very well to it now, no more problems, not even with big 160mm radius prints. To unstick from the bed after it finished i just let it cool down and it unsticks by itself.

If it needs a clean, vinegar does wonders. I'm really happy with the prints i'm getting now.
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 06, 2016 07:42AM
Quote
CrisCG
I'm enjoying the prints in PLA. I just use a mist of hair spray, the bed looks almost like it has nothing on it, because i spray a fine layer on the bed. Prints stick very well to it now, no more problems, not even with big 160mm radius prints. To unstick from the bed after it finished i just let it cool down and it unsticks by itself.

If it needs a clean, vinegar does wonders. I'm really happy with the prints i'm getting now.

If I can't wait I use gas duster spray turned upside down, it cools things down in no time, parts just pop off of the surface ;-)
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 06, 2016 08:51AM
I got my traxxas rod ends yesterday and have put them on with the sintron rods (just for now) and already there is a vast improvement. The effecter stays level all the way around the bed now, no more binding rod ends.
I have seen some carbon fibre rods that I am interested in, what inside diameter should I get - 3mm or 4mm ? and which will give the best fit (either 3mm screw in or 4mm with epoxy resin) ?.

Last night, I got my first nozzle clog. Pain in the a&$£ they are. Soaked my nozzle in acetone overnight, then used a 2mm Dremel drill bit and 0.3 & 0.4mm milling bits to clean the inside. Worked very well, now I have a nozzle cleaning kit as well.
Is there anything in particular that I should do before I start printing after a nozzle clean ? Should I make sure plastic is coming out before I start a print ?

Back to calibration.....If I may,
My bed is spirit level straight and using the delta_smooth_rod_offset I have managed to get my bed level from centre left all the way, including the centre, to centre right and even front centre (between x and y towers).
The nozzle tip is 1.8mm above the bed when it is in front of the z tower, can anybody tell me why ? and how to change it.

Soon I want to put some LEDs on the frame but I want to print some fixings for them. I want to design my own bracket so does anyone know any good, but not hard to use, design programs for making things.
I am familiar with the basics of autoCAD, so I am not a newbie to design software, just to 3D printers.

Thanks
Ant
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 06, 2016 01:48PM
Quote
Electric ant
I got my traxxas rod ends yesterday and have put them on with the sintron rods (just for now) and already there is a vast improvement. The effecter stays level all the way around the bed now, no more binding rod ends.
I have seen some carbon fibre rods that I am interested in, what inside diameter should I get - 3mm or 4mm ? and which will give the best fit (either 3mm screw in or 4mm with epoxy resin) ?.

Get with ID = 4mm, and glue rod ends using short M4 rods. If you get 3mm carbon tube, you will have to cut thread inside it, but it's very difficult to do it with carbon.


Quote
Electric ant
Soon I want to put some LEDs on the frame but I want to print some fixings for them. I want to design my own bracket so does anyone know any good, but not hard to use, design programs for making things.
I am familiar with the basics of autoCAD, so I am not a newbie to design software, just to 3D printers.
If you are a programmer - OpenSCAD.
Fusion 360 is also easy to learn.
Very simple (but powerful enough) online (web-browser) CAD - [www.tinkercad.com]
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 06, 2016 03:54PM
My recipe:

1. Get 2 packs of 12 Traxxas rod ends, 12 M4 20mm set screws, and 6mm o.d. x 4mm i.d. CF tube.

2. Assemble all the Traxxas joints using the hot/cold method.

3. Pick 12 joints that have no free play.

4. Screw the set screws into the Traxxas ends as far as they will go.

5. Make a jig comprising two M3 screws fixed the correct distance apart in a piece of aluminium extrusion.

6. Cut the tube to length. Use medium speed epoxy to assemble one rod, gluing the set screw into the tube. Leave to set firm in a warm place for several hours. Then remove it and use the jig to make the next one.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Ebay SINTRON Kossel Mini full kit
March 07, 2016 12:06PM
I'm starting to have trouble with prints lifting up... when i started to print, first few days, nothing was lifting. Strange!
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