E3D and spring loaded extruder

I have a cheap E3D hot end from eBay and want to fit the supplied fitting to the adjustable extruder.
The push fitting seems rather large.
Do I need a smaller fitting or has anybody modified the extruder to take this fitting.
The other alternative is to remove the push fitting and use the reprap brass end on to the tubing.

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appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

I don't get your problem. You don't connect the hotend with the Extruder. The only connection is the PTFE-tube. As long as you ordered the right one (I guess it is a cheap clone only) you don't need a brass end at the hotend side. I can't provide a link right now but on thingiverse I have some pictures showing my clone with push fits.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Hmm no idea, i have the original and it takes same 4mm ptfe tube as original hot end. If you have larger hole you will have to get a bigger ptfe tube and modify the extruder somehow to take larger ptfe tube.

I am guessing u bought hot end for 3mm fillament instead of 1.75 by mistake

Quote
Darathy
I am guessing u bought hot end for 3mm fillament instead of 1.75 by mistake

That is what I guess. too. I have the cheap one and no problems. Oh I did not provide any pictures yet but it really works for me. The clone is provided with a pneumatic fitting. If the PTFE-tube is not hold by that fitting (the PTFE-tube alone without any additional mountings) you got the wrong hot-end.

@Darathy At this offers you have to tell the seller what kind of hot-end do you want. That means nozzle size and filament size. Otherwise you get a standard one like I have (1.75mm filament size with 0.4mm nozzle size) or sometimes you get a random one! BTW what about your heater cartridge? is it 25W or 40W? That is one reason I did not buy the original one.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Quote
appjaws1
I have a cheap E3D hot end from eBay and want to fit the supplied fitting to the adjustable extruder.
The push fitting seems rather large.
Do I need a smaller fitting or has anybody modified the extruder to take this fitting.
The other alternative is to remove the push fitting and use the reprap brass end on to the tubing.

I think you mean the pneumatic fitting a phot may help to understand your issue fully mind.

Doug------------------------

Sorry for the confusion.
I have the correct E3D for 1.75mm filament.
The problem is that the end of the PTFE tube that attaches to the extruder has a pneumatic fitting with a screw thread of 9.5mm diameter. How is this attached to the extruder, which would need a hole to take a tap for this size of thread?



I assume that a smaller push fitting is available, if so what should I be looking for and what is the best way to attach the PTFE tubing to the extruder part?

Thanks for any help.

---

appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

I assume you're using the standard sprung extruder.

The brass unions supplied are a strange1/8" thread which is 9.3mm. the fitting can be fitted with brute force and ignorance, use a drill or filament to keep the union square with the arm.

I've attached a file for the arm and for the fixed part which has had the very weak and breakable parts designed out.

Both parts have to be trimmed after printing.

I've also redesigned other parts to strengthen them & get rid of countersunk screws, every one of which failed on my Ormerod 1.

Richard

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2016 07:56AM by cua193.

Quote
appjaws1
Sorry for the confusion.
I have the correct E3D for 1.75mm filament.
The problem is that the end of the PTFE tube that attaches to the extruder has a pneumatic fitting with a screw thread of 9.5mm diameter. How is this attached to the extruder, which would need a hole to take a tap for this size of thread?

[attachment 69303 E3D.jpg]

I assume that a smaller push fitting is available, if so what should I be looking for and what is the best way to attach the PTFE tubing to the extruder part?

Thanks for any help.

You are confusing me. Regarding your pictures forget about the new tube and only use the old one. Removing the brass screw which was intended for your old nozzle and that's it.

Edit: Which design did you print of the arm? Otherwise you need another pneumatic fitting.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2016 07:57AM by Treito.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Quote
appjaws1
Sorry for the confusion.
I have the correct E3D for 1.75mm filament.
The problem is that the end of the PTFE tube that attaches to the extruder has a pneumatic fitting with a screw thread of 9.5mm diameter. How is this attached to the extruder, which would need a hole to take a tap for this size of thread?

[attachment 69303 E3D.jpg]

I assume that a smaller push fitting is available, if so what should I be looking for and what is the best way to attach the PTFE tubing to the extruder part?

Thanks for any help.

¸

You can just remove the neumatic fiting and fit the Original brass fiting you got with ormerod, or if you can get original Drawing and modify the extruder to take the 9.3mm pneumatic fiting.

Quote
Treito
@Darathy At this offers you have to tell the seller what kind of hot-end do you want. That means nozzle size and filament size. Otherwise you get a standard one like I have (1.75mm filament size with 0.4mm nozzle size) or sometimes you get a random one! BTW what about your heater cartridge? is it 25W or 40W? That is one reason I did not buy the original one.

I got a 25W one and heats up slow as hell ,i have removed my E3D since the Original is faster and does produce better prints for me atleast so i have the E3D just laying araund atm till the original breaks and since reprappro is gone i will use it then

You never got any blobing issues with your fake? or Problems with circles where the fillament would not stick and just make a line across the hole?

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2016 08:08AM by Darathy.

Quote
cua193
I assume you're using the standard sprung extruder.

The brass unions supplied are a strange1/8" thread which is 9.3mm. the fitting can be fitted with brute force and ignorance, use a drill or filament to keep the union square with the arm.

I've attached a file for the arm and for the fixed part which has had the very weak and breakable parts designed out.

Both parts have to be trimmed after printing.

I've also redesigned other parts to strengthen them & get rid of countersunk screws, every one of which failed on my Ormerod 1.

Richard

Thank you Richard, just what I needed.
Is the arm the same design that takes a PTFE tube along the internal curve of the filament path?
What do you use to re-design parts? I use openscad and simplyfy3d to slice. I have found simplify excellent for support structures which are easily removed.

I also have had problems with the countersunk screw holes on my ormerod 1 and have changed a number of them to cap head bolts.
I would be very interested seeing your other modified parts.

Printing your parts now thank you
Paul

---

appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

Quote
Darathy

Quote
Treito
@Darathy At this offers you have to tell the seller what kind of hot-end do you want. That means nozzle size and filament size. Otherwise you get a standard one like I have (1.75mm filament size with 0.4mm nozzle size) or sometimes you get a random one! BTW what about your heater cartridge? is it 25W or 40W? That is one reason I did not buy the original one.

I got a 25W one and heats up slow as hell ,i have removed my E3D since the Original is faster and does produce better prints for me atleast so i have the E3D just laying araund atm till it breaks and since reprappro is gone i will use it then

Your post prevented me at least from buying the original one. I read your statement earlier. So I gave the clones a try. They are equipped with a 40W heater which is fast enough in my eyes. With the 0.4mm nozzle I even got better prints compared to the original nozzle of my Ormerod 1 (the good old one, not quickset).

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Quote
Darathy
You never got any blobing issues with your fake? or Problems with circles where the fillament would not stick and just make a line across the hole?

Define "blobbing issues". If you think about the skirt etc. I only get this if the nozzle is too deep or the bed is not aligned. If you mean sidewalls that can I fix with options from Simplify3D and I had the same issues with my Ormerod 1.
The only problems with circles are caused by my Ormerod 1, but that is mechanical related somehow. Probably it was the X-arm.
My Ormerod 2 is equipped with the fake nozzle and I have no problems with holes. Okay sometimes a skirt or circle is not sticking, but the reasons are caused like above. Bed high, bed leveling or additionally the temperatures where wrong.
You have to change your config.g to fit your thermistor. The fake ones are very easy as all are using exactly the same thermistor so a B value of 3950 is cmmon.
If I were you I would have tried to investigate where your problems are related. My first guesses would be thermistor values and bed levelling/ z-homing.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Quote
Treito

Quote
Darathy

Quote
Treito
@Darathy At this offers you have to tell the seller what kind of hot-end do you want. That means nozzle size and filament size. Otherwise you get a standard one like I have (1.75mm filament size with 0.4mm nozzle size) or sometimes you get a random one! BTW what about your heater cartridge? is it 25W or 40W? That is one reason I did not buy the original one.

I got a 25W one and heats up slow as hell ,i have removed my E3D since the Original is faster and does produce better prints for me atleast so i have the E3D just laying araund atm till it breaks and since reprappro is gone i will use it then

Your post prevented me at least from buying the original one. I read your statement earlier. So I gave the clones a try. They are equipped with a 40W heater which is fast enough in my eyes. With the 0.4mm nozzle I even got better prints compared to the original nozzle of my Ormerod 1 (the good old one, not quickset).

You can replace the 25 watt one (Has Blue wires) for a 40 watt one (red wires) they are a direct replacement E3D used to supply 40 watt ones and don't really know why they changed to 25W ones and I to found that with the 25W one fitted I had to increase the heat timer to compensate for the extra heating time.

Doug

Quote
appjaws1
Sorry for the confusion.
I have the correct E3D for 1.75mm filament.
The problem is that the end of the PTFE tube that attaches to the extruder has a pneumatic fitting with a screw thread of 9.5mm diameter. How is this attached to the extruder, which would need a hole to take a tap for this size of thread?

[attachment 69303 E3D.jpg]

I assume that a smaller push fitting is available, if so what should I be looking for and what is the best way to attach the PTFE tubing to the extruder part?

Thanks for any help.

Appjaws you can get the fitting in M5 and M6 as well as the 1/8th BSPP that you have there is a slight advantage with the M6 or 1/8 mind in that you can drill out the threaded part to 4mm and pass the PTFE tube all the way thru it as far as the Hobbed gear?

have a look at pushfit fitting you need a 4mm one at whatever Male stud thread size you need (I believe that the M5 is a direct fit or els a M6 will go into a slightly enlarged 5mm hole.

HTH Doug

Quote
appjaws1
Printing your parts now thank you
Paul

Should you have trouble with the parts I could adjust my feeder part easily.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

yes please,
I have just printed Richards version and am unable to clear the hole for the fitting and the support between the lugs where the motor part swings.

a openscad file or stl without support would be ideal.

---

appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

I only can provide a .STL because I only had a .STL from the original part. See attachment.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

I fitted this one to my extruder when i set up my e3d

10 Pcs 5mm Male Thread 4mm Push In Joint Pneumatic Connector Quick Fittings [www.amazon.com]

Now you have two PTFE tubes. Either cut the bottom fitting off the old one and use it in the push connector, or cut the top fitting off the new one, unscrew the top fitting off the old one, and adapt the top end configuration of the new one to match what you need for your extruder.

The justification I've seen most frequently for the heater change is for safety, as the 40W cartridge is capable of eventually melting the hot end and causing fires if the Mosfet sticks on. Unfortunately, the v6 has a lot of thermal mass, so even with a 40W heater, it takes a long time to heat up and cool down (agonizing if you have a high ooze-prevention temperature delta on a multi-extruder print). The low thermal mass of the QuickSet hot end is great in that respect.

Paul & others,

My ormerod failed so catastropically that I more or less had to start from scratch. I might start a thread & describe my build. This was because of poor detail design and printing with the minimum of plastic. Every countersunk fixing failed, the failure of the two at the ends of the horizontal extrusion meant that I coulden't print replacements - hence the rebuild in metal. I already had an intense dislike ot countersunk screws - in plastic they're just a failure waiting to happen.

The main chassis is now aluminium, the bed aluminium & printed plastic but is now bigger, the rails are spaced further apart and in the same vertical plane so nothing there will fit a conventional Ormerod.

I use Blender for my 3d drawing, it has a learning curve as steep as the North Face of the Eiger but I learned to use it when I was designing for train sims. It's simple, though, to import a 3ds or stl file for modification.

Here are a few other bits which you might find useful:-

A decent calbration stand which will accept a digital caliper - use it with plastic clamps - simple and accurate.

469 strong is the clamp for the z motor - I've had to keep the countersunk screws behind the motor.

mod extruder is the standard non-sprung example but I've reduced the risk of self destruction as far as possible, again the original design had break points built in. The keeper should be made from metal & a hole drilled through the extruder & keeper.

z top has the countersunk screws replaced; the hole for the z rod just stops the rod waving in the breeze & protects it from stray cables, arms & other things which might damage it.

11mm z nut, just takes a larger nut; I cut mine from a piece of bronze.

regards
Richard

Quote
appjaws
yes please,
I have just printed Richards version and am unable to clear the hole for the fitting and the support between the lugs where the motor part swings.

The support in the jaw is a torus with minimal contact - just enough to prevent drooping. A sharp knive will cut it away.

Some quirk of Netfabb shows the fixture hole closed. Slic3r ignores this zero thickness.

The part started life with treito - I merely added the fittings in Blender.

Richard

Thanks to all who replied.

Is there a problem with the pneumatic fittings holding under normal extruder pressures?

---

appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

It depends on the fitting. As far as I know often removing the tube is the bigger problem. For the M5-thread size I recently bought 30 fittings for less than 9€

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.