New to 3d printing with smartrap need some help

I'm using 10-24 stainless from home depot. It fits the stock frame good

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2014 07:13PM by duranza.

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duranza
I'm using 10-24 stainless from home depot. It fits the stock frame good

so that is size #10 and 24 threads per inch.
That is about 1/8 inch diameter threaded rod but the recommended 5mm rod is 60% longer diameter.
I am planning on a 22cm long Z axis rod to get 150mm Z height for printing.
Does #10 meet my requirements?

10-24 is .190 diameter, while 5mm is .196 diameter. Too close to notice any difference.

It is the same thing with the bowden tubes and push fittings. Everybody is selling 4mm. You can get 5/32 tubing and fitting and they are both the same size.

http://www.aaronspushnuts.com/free_table.htm

Another thread mentioned this table as a reference. I'm not sure if this table is already pasted in the RepRap wiki itself, at least google doesn't find it for me..

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RTurnock

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duranza
I'm using 10-24 stainless from home depot. It fits the stock frame good

so that is size #10 and 24 threads per inch.
That is about 1/8 inch diameter threaded rod but the recommended 5mm rod is 60% longer diameter.
I am planning on a 22cm long Z axis rod to get 150mm Z height for printing.
Does #10 meet my requirements?

Can you buy a M5 die there and run it down some 5mm smooth rod and make your own? The important part is not the diameter it is the turns per millimeter. M5 has 0.8mm turns while M6 has 1mm turn.

BTW: my Z rods are 360mm, X rods are 360mm,Y rods are 260mm.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

I am following this BOM. Is there a better one or more current one?

SmartrapBOM-whatisnecessary.pdf

OK, thanks for the information on the threaded rod.

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RTurnock
I am following this BOM. Is there a better one or more current one?

[attachment 36731 SmartrapBOM-whatisnecessary.pdf]

OK, thanks for the information on the threaded rod.

You can make the size whatever you want,bigger is better in some ways because you can make bigger prints. As for the Bowden tube,I would go a lot longer,250mm makes the bend too sharp and causes big restrictions and friction, a longer Bowden eliminates that problem and doesn't increase the friction more because of the length.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

I saw a video of the Smartrap with the extruder working but the motor was on a table with the shaft pointing straight up and pushing filament through a bowden tube.........is that how you use your extruder?

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RTurnock
I saw a video of the Smartrap with the extruder working but the motor was on a table with the shaft pointing straight up and pushing filament through a bowden tube.........is that how you use your extruder?

The geared extruder can be used in several different ways as now it is a stand-alone design.. Using it to produce the least number of curves in the Bowden tube is best. There are so many different ways of building a SmartRap now that you cannot define which way to put a geared extruder, you need to think about how it will work best for you. Easy to get at the filament for loading,least bends for the Bowden,position on the machine, If using the built-in model then you have no choice, it is all taken care of and fixed in place.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

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RTurnock
Where do people in USA buy M5 or M6 threaded rod?
I have been looking at McMaster Carr and they have only inches in that small a size.
I could buy a 1/4inch - 16 TPI or larger, and make changes in firmware to get the right steps per unit.
I am interested in a specific hyperlink to a specific product that people have already purchased and that works for you.

I got my M5 threaded rod and 8mm drill rod from Enco.

Threaded rod - [www.use-enco.com]

Drill rod - [www.use-enco.com]

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From FreeCAD To The Real World- Demo video using FreeCAD and featuring the Smartrap 3D Printer

Would it be nice to have the smartrap in imperial ?

i wonder..

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smartfriendz
Would it be nice to have the smartrap in imperial ?

i wonder..

No Way!
About the only country using imperial is USA, nearly all other countries use metric.
Imperial has some strange calculations to be made for 3D printing, not really easy to do like metric.

I have no idea why USA has not gone metric yet, it makes it hard to fit in with the rest of the World.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

Being in the US, I would agree with Reg on this one. I have no idea why the US has not gone to metric. There are only 3 countries that use the imperial system, US, Liberia, and Burma, (aka Myanmar). It really does not make sense to design an imperial units based Smartrap. Look at the cost of 3/8" linear bearings for example and compare them to the cost of 8 mm bearings, and we still end up with metric screws for stepper motors that have 5 mm shafts, etc. I would just stick with metric. Even if the 3 backwater country's that haven't gone to it officially, it does not stop the people within them from using metric. Metric parts are not that hard to find for the most part, and the internet brings the world to your door.

Mark

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From FreeCAD To The Real World- Demo video using FreeCAD and featuring the Smartrap 3D Printer

thanks guys. That's pretty clear to me : no imperial ! ( but i like the name .. imperial smartrap..good for ego

To be honest, i was a little scared because until i would redo the all design in something like openscad , I don't see when i could work on the adaptation , it's a lot of work , and i even couldn't test easy from France. I think the only imperial we have left here are those gaz plumbing stuff ? 1/8 5/6 ..etc ?

But.. I want to redo all in something like opens cad for all options ( 3 driving systems for axis, 6 / 8 mm rods, 1.75 / 3mm filament, direct drive / geared extruder .. etc..). All exists actually but i have hard time to maintain them all .

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smartfriendz
thanks guys. That's pretty clear to me : no imperial ! ( but i like the name .. imperial smartrap..good for ego

To be honest, i was a little scared because until i would redo the all design in something like openscad , I don't see when i could work on the adaptation , it's a lot of work , and i even couldn't test easy from France. I think the only imperial we have left here are those gaz plumbing stuff ? 1/8 5/6 ..etc ?

But.. I want to redo all in something like opens cad for all options ( 3 driving systems for axis, 6 / 8 mm rods, 1.75 / 3mm filament, direct drive / geared extruder .. etc..). All exists actually but i have hard time to maintain them all .

Why not? Hurry and get on with it ha..ha..

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

Imperial is still nice to place on top of a car. The music industry replaced the 12 inch records with MP3, now that was a bad idea i admit, but now there is FLAC and everyting is ok in that department. Rack servers are still placed in 19inch racks that for some reason are never actually the same 19 inch for some strange reason.. Or are inches flexible in the 19inch range?

Wouldn't hurt to learn more about working with imperial but keeping things simple can be hard enough at times. Imperial seems to me more about capitalism these days, Demand Imperial designs and then be sure the money doesn't flow across the border, but then capitalism also increases the price of anything imperial that make the stuff many times more expensive and thus only helps to make the imperial industry fatter on the account of the working class.

Oe i got carried away there... :-) I even forgot to mention PCB designs where the imperial pinspacing causes a lot of headaches.

Switching from Imperial to metric isn't an easy thing... Imagine all the industrial machines out there based on imperial measurements, they still need to be repairable, not only spare parts but also a technician who still can cope with the imperial stuff. And you don't want a critical part of a nuclear reactor based on imperial be kept together with a metric bolt by accident.

All that said... yes please keep it metric!!

Being in the USA, I also say keep it metric. The only time I use Imperial these days is if I'm cutting wood for my house, or repairing something made with Imperial Standards. I can do most Imperial to Metric conversions in my head these days, but I don't have a measuring device over a meter for doing large projects like my house. Besides, I live in a pretty rural area, and I'm still able to source all the metric rods/bolts locally if I chose to do so.

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BackEMF
Imperial is still nice to place on top of a car. The music industry replaced the 12 inch records with MP3, now that was a bad idea i admit, but now there is FLAC and everyting is ok in that department. Rack servers are still placed in 19inch racks that for some reason are never actually the same 19 inch for some strange reason.. Or are inches flexible in the 19inch range?

Wouldn't hurt to learn more about working with imperial but keeping things simple can be hard enough at times. Imperial seems to me more about capitalism these days, Demand Imperial designs and then be sure the money doesn't flow across the border, but then capitalism also increases the price of anything imperial that make the stuff many times more expensive and thus only helps to make the imperial industry fatter on the account of the working class.

Oe i got carried away there... :-) I even forgot to mention PCB designs where the imperial pinspacing causes a lot of headaches.

Switching from Imperial to metric isn't an easy thing... Imagine all the industrial machines out there based on imperial measurements, they still need to be repairable, not only spare parts but also a technician who still can cope with the imperial stuff. And you don't want a critical part of a nuclear reactor based on imperial be kept together with a metric bolt by accident.

All that said... yes please keep it metric!!

Quite some years ago, Australia was also using feet and inches. When the change came in, no-one wanted it because it was new. After it had been in a while, everyone loved it because it was so easy.
Some standard have not changed, like in the PCB spacing for electronic components (what a pain) and some plumbing and gas fittings.
Many of the older folk here still think in feet and inches, they visualize every measurement that way. For a long time I also had to visualize in Imperial and then workout in my head the metric equivalent, but soon it was all metric for me. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to Imperial measurements again.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

It seems that everyone even in usa switched already , even not official

I was wondering , not anymore. i guess there won't be a Smartrap imperial .

I was in fact just asking because the more we go forward with the project, the more i see the "swiss knife" and "shared real time development of printed structure", becoming the most cool aspect

I believe it will become the main communication point of this printer. And i'm very happy about it. it fits perfectly my very first idea . you want greg's extruder ? or mark double j-head ? r&p ? fishing line ? be my guest.. it's all compatible

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It is definitely the most flexible design out there. What drew me in, was that it resembles a milling machine. Great job Serge.

Is it normal for the bowden tube to elongate/ stretch?

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duranza
It is definitely the most flexible design out there. What drew me in, was that it resembles a milling machine. Great job Serge.

Is it normal for the bowden tube to elongate/ stretch?

The bowden tube is (normally) PTFE with a Young modulus (measure of stiffness in a material, higher is more stiff) of 0.5GPa which is a bit low (low stiffness).
See: [www.engineeringtoolbox.com] for Young modulus values for some materials.
It can be strecthed by hand but not really that much and it probably doesn't matter for this use.
Bending is worse since you then get higher friction between the tube and the filament and consequently need more force to push the filament through.

@ Regpye:
In the PCB designs i also see 5mm and 3,5 mm pinspacing winning some ground. But the mixed pinspacings can drive you wild since you never have the right grid....

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BackEMF
@ Regpye:
In the PCB designs i also see 5mm and 3,5 mm pinspacing winning some ground. But the mixed pinspacings can drive you wild since you never have the right grid....

Yes it can be a bit of a pain, because some manufacturers also make in different pin placement sizes for similar devices. I have had to design some PCBs with dual pin spacings and use the device which is available at the time.
Biggest problem with all of that is the software that I use is either Imperial setting or Metric setting, can't have a mix of both.
I am going to be trying laser engraving the boards soon with the new laser that I am building. That is engrave a black painted surface and then etch.
At present I have been using iron-on and peel method. Works very good and then I etch with hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

Yes, i totally agree, would be a great solution to have dual grids.

For a single, single sided PCB i prefer to print a mirrored trace design with a laserprinter on glossy paper, and then transfer the toner by ironing it on a well cleaned copper clad PCB. (Ace tone works great to do the cleaning the copper, and also to remove the toner once it is etched)
For dual sided PCB i prefer to spend some extra time on the design and then order a small batch (10 pcs) I'm doing this with the ATX board I’m designing during coffee breaks.

Quote
BackEMF
Yes, i totally agree, would be a great solution to have dual grids.

For a single, single sided PCB i prefer to print a mirrored trace design with a laserprinter on glossy paper, and then transfer the toner by ironing it on a well cleaned copper clad PCB. (Ace tone works great to do the cleaning the copper, and also to remove the toner once it is etched)
For dual sided PCB i prefer to spend some extra time on the design and then order a small batch (10 pcs) I'm doing this with the ATX board I’m designing during coffee breaks.

What software do you use?

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

fritzing.org

It's still Beta, but i like it much better then eagle. And it's not 'limited / annoying by design'. Eagle is more advanced and i hear the newer hobby-release is not as limited as before. But for now i stick with fritzing mainly because i moved away from eagle due to the limitations it used to have.

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BackEMF
fritzing.org

It's still Beta, but i like it much better then eagle. And it's not 'limited / annoying by design'. Eagle is more advanced and i hear the newer hobby-release is not as limited as before. But for now i stick with fritzing mainly because i moved away from eagle due to the limitations it used to have.

Looks interesting, their website has a lot of activity it seems.
I am using Eagle

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

Yeah Eagle is nice, iv'e looked up the recent conditions for the freeware version and unfortunately it is still as crippled as before.

Limitations:

The following limitations apply to the EAGLE Light Edition in general:

The useable board area is limited to 100 x 80 mm (4 x 3.2 inches).
Only two signal layers can be used (Top and Bottom).
The schematic editor can only create one sheet

Not too bad but when you run out of space on that 100x80 then you have just no choice then to submit or move away.

Now Fritzing is also still 'limited' as being 'dual layer only' but i guess that will change when fritzing evolves. But at least i can make a hobby design that exeeds 100x80 or is more like 50x160.

Would be nice if fritzing could also open eagle projects and vice versa. The PCB industry has not made much progress compared to other CAD software

New smartrap probe/hot-end plate

Hey all, I have a little present for you guys. Take a look a this little mod. I will be testing it tomorrow and when all is good I will post some STLs for whoever wants to upgrade.

This will help out with eliminating the torque of the normal arm, as this only allows up/down movement.

wow. tha't's nice one duranza.

can i test it ?

I don't see well how it attaches to hot end , but i'm sure it's all there.

also, from last development, it's good to focus on j-head type, i think we will switch back soon ( huxley will be made of course for the existing kits).

thai=nk you for this

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2014 04:14AM by smartfriendz.

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