Low power Reprap

I've followed the Reprap developement for a couple of years now, and i'm getting ready to build one.

One of my main reasons for building one, is to be able to make the parts for windmills and battery systems, to generate my own power.

I have been able to get a basic low power computer (around 200W) running the Ubuntu-based livecd with the Reprap software. It still consumes a fairly large amount of juice though.

It just ht me on Sunday, using an Iphone or an Androidphone would get around several problems.

- They're low-power devices. Which deals with the power drain.
- They're sufficiently powerful to run the software.
- And they're USB capable, so they could be used as USB plugin devices to control the reprap and carry the printing data.

Means that they could be used as portable USB-keys as well as control systems.

Stick a Reprap in a kiosk. Plug-in your phone, and print your work.

Makes the Diamond Age replicators seem more achievable.

Any thoughts?

All the computer does is stream commands to the machine. They could easily be stored on an SD card. That is a few hundred dollars cheaper than buying a netbook or phone.

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Darwin clone, Gen 2 electronics, Arduino Duemilanove w/ AtMega328, 5D Firmware, Pinchwheel extruder
[www.codeerrors.com]

mccoyn Wrote:
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> All the computer does is stream commands to the
> machine. They could easily be stored on an SD
> card. That is a few hundred dollars cheaper than
> buying a netbook or phone.

Yes, but you can't attach the SD card to the internet. You also may not be able to borrow your friends SDCard commands, because they may be specific to his reprap robot (perhaps he uses a different size thread.) You would still need the (low power) device able to perform this action so you can browse the objects you might want to print, rather than have SD cards shipped to your home.

BTW, I think it's a great idea; all that you need now is the application to convert STL files to the specific hardware GCodes needed by your REPRAP, to allow you to, for example, browse thingverse, find the gadget you want, and print it out. I don't think it's going to happen quickly, but it feels like someone's gonna do this.

BeagleFury Wrote:
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>
>
> BTW, I think it's a great idea; all that you need
> now is the application to convert STL files to the
> specific hardware GCodes needed by your REPRAP, to
> allow you to, for example, browse thingverse, find
> the gadget you want, and print it out. I don't
> think it's going to happen quickly, but it feels
> like someone's gonna do this.

Skeinforge does that. In a few weeks, the commercial software app, Netfabb, will, too.

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Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

Thomas A. Edison

> Skeinforge does that. In a few weeks, the commercial software app, Netfabb, will, too.


Good point. Does it run unaltered on an IPhone?

I'm planning on trying to run my reprap from a TS-7250 I have lying around.. I have a 5W etx board that needs some playing with too

The specs on the TS7250 look great.

5V @ 400mA is ideal for the battery systems i've been looking at.

I've never used one of these boards. What are your opinions on how they run?

I prefer the ts-7260 over the 7250, as the 7260 has an SD slot. the cpu is a 200MHz arm. softfloat only, as the on-chip floating point has too many bugs.

I wouldn't run skeinforge on it as it would take hours to days, but they're perfect for coordinating the build. Since they have ethernet and usb host ports for wireless, you could set up a print server that listens on your network.

I've had one sending PNGs from a hokuyo urg 04LX over wireless lan in realtime, so the cpu is usably fast for embedded-type stuff

I was wondering when someone would do an SlugOS type hardware for RepRap Hard without a UI though. And in terms of skeinforge performance, wouldn't the actual commands take longer to execute than for skeinforge to generate? Couldn't you just stream the output to the build, or is that not how Skeinforge operates?

Skeinforge generates gcode files. So does Netfabb. If you want to stream them from a PC that's your job. Me? I prefer the Rapman SD card arrangement. It keeps my total energy consumption for printing down at 48 watts. I only use the PC to design parts, not print them. My PC draws 450 watts at idle.

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Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

Thomas A. Edison

Hi Forrest,

The SlugOS hardware is a $100 wireless file server router, reprogrammed as a general small linux operating system. It draws only 8 or 9 watts at most (if you overclock it), nothing like a PC.

Sounds like it could host EMC and a usb<->parallel port adapter to do EMCRepStrap stuff.

If you have a decent compiler for your MCU you can access SD cards from there. Mikroelektronika {mikoe.com} sells excellent ones.

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Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

Thomas A. Edison

If you use the NSLU2 Linksys device, with SlugOS firmware installed, you've already got a decent compiler --- gcc. I don't think it's a problem of getting it to work on a device along these lines, it's more whether (a) the software is fast enough, and (b) whether you'd want to.

My question was more about (a). Would Skeinforge run faster than the printer can print, on a dedicated 200MHz / 32MB-Ram CPU? Since it already has wireless and USP hosting already, it could potentially replace the laptop if you can figure out a low cost GUI device (USB screen and keyboard?).

I think I can answer (b) easily -- Add a 3D scanner, and sell it as a 3D copy machine, able to print any object you can scan or any object in STL format from any web site -- no extra laptop or computer required. Sell it as a commodity printer along the same lines as the printer/fax/copy/photo-printer machines for 2D printing.

For more info on the linksys NSLU2 and SlugOS specifically, check out What is NSUL2 and SlugOS?

I don't think Skeinforge would be quicker than building the object on a 200MHz CPU. The time varies massively from object to object but can be several hours on a 3GHz Core2 Duo.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I haven't run into anything that Skeinforge takes hours to process. In general the Skeinforge time is always a lot less than the printing time. I have a 3.06 GHz P4.

I think the architecture of Skeinforge needs to change a little to allow simultaneous printing. I believe each phase starts at the first layer and goes through all of them and then the next phase runs starting at the first layer again. This means 90% of the work is required before the first layer can start printing. For a simultaneous print you would want to wait to calculate the second layer until all the calculations for the first layer were done and so on. I think the reprap host software actually does it layer-by-layer.

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Darwin clone, Gen 2 electronics, Arduino Duemilanove w/ AtMega328, 5D Firmware, Pinchwheel extruder
[www.codeerrors.com]

Wow! That's weird.

I've run Skeinforge on most of the Mendel parts and never had it run longer than about 5 minutes. Some of the nasty gears and geneva wheels I've done have taken a few minutes longer, but never anything like more than maybe 10 minutes.

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Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

Thomas A. Edison

Forrest.

I can imagine that the now vast array of PC CPU arangements from Intel and AMD there might be a combination that will run Skeinforge faster.

At last count there was over 50 diffrent CPU types listed for a PC.

What CPU is your PC powerd by?

Which OS are you running Linux or Windows?

Which flavor of Windows / Linux

It also seems that you have a very high idle power usage @ 450 watts is the CPU over clocked as well?


I just cant avoid asking this question..><

What is the power drain when its runing Skeinforge?

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Bodge It [reprap.org]
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BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board	BIQ Stepcon	BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB	BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement	BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting	BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting	Print It Stick It Cut it

My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]

I haven't installed Psycho, so that might make a big difference. I also use a version from more than a year ago so it might have improved, although that is not generally the way software goes.

It is much faster slicing for 0.5mm filament that it is for 0.4mm. It must be proportional to a very high power of filament diameter.

You can't do a good job layer by layer because each layer depends on the two below and two above, when set for 3 solid layers.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

two below and two above? so we could export the first layer after calculating layer 3?

I think so, Enrique is the expert though.

I expect that when you add support material you have to look all the way up to the top of the object so you can add support at the bottom if there is an overhang anywhere above.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Dell XPS 730 H20 {water cooled}

Intel Core2 Extreme Q6800 @ 3.8GHz overclocked

Most of the power over 400 watts is taken up by the graphics cards which skeinforge makes no great use of.

Now if I run something like Portal or one of the heavy duty games that use both the graphics cards and the physics card that can run up to 900 watts.

BodgeIt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forrest.
>
> I can imagine that the now vast array of PC CPU
> arangements from Intel and AMD there might be a
> combination that will run Skeinforge faster.
>
> At last count there was over 50 diffrent CPU types
> listed for a PC.
>
> What CPU is your PC powerd by?
>
> Which OS are you running Linux or Windows?
>
> Which flavor of Windows / Linux
>
> It also seems that you have a very high idle power
> usage @ 450 watts is the CPU over clocked as
> well?
>
>
> I just cant avoid asking this question..><
>
> What is the power drain when its runing
> Skeinforge?

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-------------------------------------------------------

Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

Thomas A. Edison

Grining yep~

I thought you would have a Mean machine with that power consumption..

Looking at my little micro ATX lovingly... with its 6 tiny fans keeping its very cheap E2140 1.6GHz dual core Pentium running at 2.5GHz with 4gb of ram.

It was running at 3GHz but I cant take chance of losing her so have dropped the overclocking down a tad.

So when I run Skeinforge it will be quite slow I guess

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Bodge It [reprap.org]
=======================================

---

BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board	BIQ Stepcon	BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB	BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement	BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting	BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting	Print It Stick It Cut it

My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]

900 watts?!.. Nice computer! That's drawing what.. 9 amps from a 120 volt line? Ouch. Must have it on it's own breaker. You'd almost be able to cook breakfast (bacon and eggs, yum) on that thing while computing...

Here is an interesting link for a tiny Linux system providing

180mhz Arm9 CPU
2Mb flash
64MB SDram
SD card
USB 2
10/100 ethernet
I2C
Jtag
4 SPI
RS232

---

Bodge It [reprap.org]
=======================================

---

BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board	BIQ Stepcon	BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB	BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement	BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting	BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting	Print It Stick It Cut it

My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]