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An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500

Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 24, 2016 07:41AM
Wire current ratings are based on temperature rise, insulation material, and whether the wire is in a bundle or free air/laying on a chassis. They're definitely thin, but as long as they don't heat up too much or prevent the hot-end from heating to target temperature they'll be fine.

I have PWM to the extruder's heater set to a maximum of 96 which allows it to stay within 1C of the target temperature while it's printing, with all the fans running. I see a definite temperature drop when the fans kick on, so it might be worthwhile to insulate the heater blocks, which should be easy since they are cylindrical. I am running the print cooling fan in parallel from 24V so I have limited PWM to 64 to keep the average power the same as they would see running at 12V. I ran the PID autotune without the print cooling fans, so I'll try it again today with the fans running and see if it makes any difference.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 24, 2016 08:45AM
I ran a multipart print last night to see see how well the glue works- it does. Soaking the plate in cold water for a few minutes released the parts. The print came out OK except for some overextrusion that I expected (I haven't calibrated it yet) and some slight shifting in the Y axis when the extruder moved from part to part (50 mm/sec vs 40 mm/sec print speed). Acceleration is down to 500 mm/s/s, so I'm going to play with the Y axis motor current a little and see if I can fix it that way before reducing acceleration/junction deviation further. I'll calibrate the extruder today, too.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 24, 2016 10:34AM
Quote
the_digital_dentist
I ran a multipart print last night to see see how well the glue works- it does. Soaking the plate in cold water for a few minutes released the parts. The print came out OK except for some overextrusion that I expected (I haven't calibrated it yet) and some slight shifting in the Y axis when the extruder moved from part to part (50 mm/sec vs 40 mm/sec print speed). Acceleration is down to 500 mm/s/s, so I'm going to play with the Y axis motor current a little and see if I can fix it that way before reducing acceleration/junction deviation further. I'll calibrate the extruder today, too.

Way to go thumbs upthumbs up
Looking fw to see the print result, keep us posted.
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 24, 2016 11:03AM
I had a few flat parts that absolutely refused to come off of that plastic build plate using the glue... I also used hairspray and masking tape which also had good adhesion, but were much easier to remove. I removed the plastic layer from the build plate using a putty knife, and I'm going to use it above my heated bed. It's a nice thick piece of glass.

I think I've bitten off more than I can chew as far as the programming, G-Code, M-code, etc... I'm a civil engineer so I'm rock solid at putting it together, but it'll be a learning curve for configuring the code and understanding the electrical bits. My Replicape controller only has 5 stepper drivers, and at this time no more can be added. I've either got to run the two Y-steppers from one driver, or sacrifice one of my Chimera's extruder steppers for the time being. I may just run the two steppers from one driver and hope for the best... worst case, I have to order a Smoothieboard, like I originally planned...
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 24, 2016 12:03PM
Quote
TheJones
Quote
Dancook
I don't plan to use the original extruders, but I honestly can't see a reason to keep them... I was trying to find a way to use them as bowens.

Why not just clamp a bowden fitting where the hotend used to go? Seems pretty straightforward to me.





Quote
the_digital_dentist
As you can tell, I like reusing the existing cables as much as possible.

Are you planing on using the stock hotend wires? They seem a little thin to me, and I'm contemplating replacing them. Thought, to be fair, they could be fine and I might just be paranoid from my recent experience with my heated bed wiring.

I'd like to try and use the original extruders as Bowens. I bought a couple of smaller/more user friendly Bowen type extruders for the time being, but if TDD figures out how to use the optical sensors, they may be valuable in the future for a way to pause the print in the event of a filament flow issue.
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 24, 2016 01:13PM
@Dancook - Check this out I think it is similar but uses different sensors.

[www.thingiverse.com]


Out of the box thinking is easier when you never fitted in the box to begin with. smiling smiley
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 25, 2016 10:13AM
I've been running a bunch of test prints to tune up one of the extruders and I can report that the Z=0 switch is working perfectly. Once I established the z=0 that got the prints to stick, it hasn't been necessary touch it again after at least 10 prints so far.

I'm printing Coex3D PLA at 215C (after a test run with a temperature sweep found that below 200C the layers separate relatively easily), 0.5 mm layers, 0.7 mm nozzle, extruder calibrated and delivering line width of 0.7 mm, here is what the surface seam looks like before tuning:





Here's what it looks like tuned up:





The seam has all but disappeared to the naked eye. Now to test at different layer thicknesses...

Regarding temperature... I am using Steinhart-Hart coefficients in smoothieware to describe the thermistor. I ran the calculations for the coefficients based on the temperature tables in the EPCOS data sheet for the 230k thermistor. I checked the temperature by removing the heater block from one of the extruders, heating it to 210C, and shoving a thermocouple into the block in place of filament. It read 200C. The thermistor has +/3% accuracy, and the thermocouple +/- 2.2C, and who knows how good the controller board's conversion of voltage to temperature works, so I'd say the temperature measurement is about as good as can be expected. That's why you have to run temperature tests with filament to see where it prints best.

Coex3D recommends 210C for colored PLA which matches up well with my measurement and temperature swept print results.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2016 10:21AM by the_digital_dentist.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 25, 2016 10:25AM
Hi Mark,

I've been impressed before by your ability to tune the seam - I was wondering what settings you use to do that. I guess it maybe specific to the slicer you use (Simplify?) but maybe there's something similar I can use on Slic3r.
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 25, 2016 03:00PM
I'm tuning for 0.25mm layer height now and found some odd behavior, so I started at the beginning again. Everytime I think I have it figured out, I realize I don't.

Here's the test part, with retraction enabled. The start of each layer is where the bump is inside the red circle, which is the start of extrusion after a retraction. It prints the inner perimeter first, then the outer perimeter, then the infill, then a retraction and lift occur at the gold bump, and new layer starts at the blue bump. At the end outer perimeter the movement is straight over to the infill as you can see by following the thin red line. That transition tends to leave a bump where the transition occurs.



If I turn on "wipe" at the end of a line (the outer perimeter in this case) the path runs along that outer perimeter before crossing over to the infill. The problem is, all I did was turn it on with the setting at 0 mm. With the wipe at 0 mm, the path should be the same as if wipe is off. Hmmm.



The bump on the surface of the print occurs where the inner perimeter ends and transitions to the outer perimeter. As the outer perimeter line is finishing and gets back to that point, a bump is created on the print's surface. One would think that "coasting" would be the answer, but that creates all sorts of problems (exaggerated here by coasting for 5 mm to make the effect visible):




Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 27, 2016 05:57AM
I have been following this thread with great interest and am wanting to follow your examples. I do have a question. The Cube X Duo isn't always available but I do sometimes see the Cube Pro Duo. The lower prices are in line with what you are paying for the Cube X. Do any of you know the difference between the two? Would I have to re invent what has already been accomplished here?. I have tried to do some research but have not found the answers I am looking for other than the following. The printing environment is enclosed and the printing area looks to be a little greater with the Pro.

Thanks for you help.
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 27, 2016 08:21AM
Maybe someone here can help me...

I was planning to use the reed switches on my X and Y axes... I used my multi-meter to make sure I was getting a signal when the magnet touched the reed switch, and they were working fine, I was getting a tone with my multi-meter... Yesterday, I was connecting everything to my controller and I decided to check the reed switches for a tone once more with my multi-meter and now I'm not getting anything from the X or Y reed switches.

I have some normal end stop switches, but I was really hoping to use the reeds because of how clean they are installed.

Thanks in advance!
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 27, 2016 02:18PM
Quote
TheJones
So, I modified my E3D heatsinks to fit the CubeX. I basically hacked off the top of the stock heatsink and used some brazing rod to attach it to the top of the E3D. I did the whole thing using really basic tools. Here are some pictures (brace yourself, it's basically a full write-up).

Excellent job on those hot ends, TheJones!
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 27, 2016 04:21PM
Quote
Kasahabo
I have been following this thread with great interest and am wanting to follow your examples. I do have a question. The Cube X Duo isn't always available but I do sometimes see the Cube Pro Duo. The lower prices are in line with what you are paying for the Cube X. Do any of you know the difference between the two? Would I have to re invent what has already been accomplished here?. I have tried to do some research but have not found the answers I am looking for other than the following. The printing environment is enclosed and the printing area looks to be a little greater with the Pro.

Thanks for you help.

If I remember correctly, the Cube Pro was a refined version of the Cube X, and it uses all the same rails and internal frame.

In fact, from the pictures I can find, it looks like the biggest difference is that the Cube Pro's plastic shell slides on front-to-back, while the Cube X's shell slides on over the top. The controller might be different too, but all the mechanical parts that I can see looks the same.

I can't say for 100% certain, but it seems like it should be an almost identical conversion process.

Quote
Dancook
Quote
TheJones
So, I modified my E3D heatsinks to fit the CubeX. I basically hacked off the top of the stock heatsink and used some brazing rod to attach it to the top of the E3D. I did the whole thing using really basic tools. Here are some pictures (brace yourself, it's basically a full write-up).

Excellent job on those hot ends, TheJones!

Thanks.

As for the magnetic switches, I would check again to make sure that they are still closing correctly. I can't imagine why the would both just stop working.

You should also check to make sure that they are on the right pins on you controller board (min or max endstop) as well as making sure that Marlin is set to treat them as N.O. switches, since I believe that most pre-configs are set to N.C. for safety reasons.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2016 04:22PM by TheJones.
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 27, 2016 06:38PM
The CubePro printers have all metal parts, microswitch type limit switches instead of the magnetic ones, the frame is braced, the bottom plate is aluminum, the controller is different and has wifi, power supply is different (I dont recall the voltage/curent ratings), there's a heater in the enclosure so you can print ABS. If you got a CubePro for the price of a CubeX you got a deal!

The extruders and hot-ends, rails and bearings are all the same.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 27, 2016 09:26PM
Alright, so as promised, I modified my extruder to have a fully supported filament path. This should help with printing flexibles. Check out the Tom's review of the Flexion extruder, it's the same idea.

I'll let you know how it works out once I get everything up and running. But at the very least, it don't see how it can hurt performance, and it gives me a way to make sure that both the hotends are at the same height, as long as I cut both tubes to the same length, and make sure they bottom out in the heatsink.

Anyways, here are some pictures.

First, I stripped out the aluminum blocks, because I didn't want to get metal chips all over my extruder's bearings and motor. Then I used the bolts as guide pins to align the pieces, and a clamp to hold them in place. With that set up, I had to drill out the holes of the filament path. I drilled them to just under 5mm for the top (to mount the bowden fittings), and just shy of 4mm in the bottom (for the Teflon support tube).


Then I tapped the holes. The top one is taped for the M5 fitting, and the bottom one is tapped with an M4 to give it "teeth" to grip the Teflon support tube.


Here is a picture on the part that will hold the tube in place when it is all bolted together.


Next, I trimmed the tube to a point, so it fits all the way up to the wheels. This will support the filament all the way down into the melt zone, kind of like a short bowden tube, which should keep the flexy stuff from kinking. I also trimmed the tube to a length that will let it bottom out in the heatsink once it is all sandwiched together. As I said before, if I trim both sides to the exact same lenght, and make sure they are both fully seated, then they should line up at the same nozzle height. At the very least, they will be close enough to shim with coke cans.


I used a piece of filament to line everything up, and pinched the lower guide tube in place. Then, with it all bolted back together, I put in the top bowden fitting for the upper filament guide tube.


And here it is, almost ready to go. I still need to assemble/wire the hotend, but I plan on doing that when I'm putting in all together.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2016 10:43PM by TheJones.
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 27, 2016 11:50PM
Looks great, but what is the purpose of the Bowden tube connector at the input to the extruder?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2016 11:51PM by the_digital_dentist.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 02:08AM
Thank you all for the information regarding the differences and similarities of the X and Pro series Cube. Looks like a fun and relatively inexpensive project....
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 04:58PM
Quote
the_digital_dentist
Looks great, but what is the purpose of the Bowden tube connector at the input to the extruder?

To connect a filament guide/strain relief tube from the spool to the extruder. That way, the filament doesn't resist the movement of the carriage, as it zips around.

Kind of like the the tubes that originally went to the filament cartridges, but more like this.


Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 08:01PM
More progress this evening. I'm working on the wiring right now, which will likely be temporary until I get my upper enclosure built.

Here is my solution for the z limit switch. I re-purposed a piece of acrylic that I had stripped off earlier, and used the waste bin height adjuster as a set screw.

It seems pretty solid. It will probably stay like this until I replace that back plate, them I'll make something similar from some scrap aluminum.


Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 08:17PM
I'm having a lot of issues with this Replicape controller in my printer... there's not much support for it, so it was probably a bad idea for my first attempt at building my own. I wish I would have gotten a smoothieboard instead.
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 09:08PM
Quote
TheJones
More progress this evening. I'm working on the wiring right now, which will likely be temporary until I get my upper enclosure built.

Here is my solution for the z limit switch. I re-purposed a piece of acrylic that I had stripped off earlier, and used the waste bin height adjuster as a set screw.

It seems pretty solid. It will probably stay like this until I replace that back plate, them I'll make something similar from some scrap aluminum.

I think you'll get better repeatability if you remove the lever from the microswitch.

I'm going to try using the scraper and waste bin- I have found that the nozzles tend to accumulate a lot of crud due to the shallow profile. If you use dual extrusion the scraper can be used in lieu of a tower to prime and clean the nozzle on tool-change. Just move the extruder past the scraper, extrude a few mm of filament, and drag the nozzle back over the scraper to knock it off. I don't know if that will work if you changed to E3D hot-ends. The profile of the nozzles may be too steep to use the scraper.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2016 09:13PM by the_digital_dentist.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 09:09PM
Quote
Dancook
I'm having a lot of issues with this Replicape controller in my printer... there's not much support for it, so it was probably a bad idea for my first attempt at building my own. I wish I would have gotten a smoothieboard instead.

You can always just buy a cheap RAMPS setup, there is loads of support out there for those things. They aren't the best boards in the world, but they work, they're cheap, and it will get you up and running. If you do seek a replacment, I would go with something that runs Marlin. There is a pre-config file to be had for just about every major board that will get you close enough to move you steppers using pronterface. From there it's just tuning and preferences.

But assuming that you are going to keep the Replicape, what issues are you having with it?
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 09:15PM
Quote
the_digital_dentist

I think you'll get better repeatability if you remove the lever from the microswitch.

I was thinking that too. The first switch I grabbed out of my box-o-parts had an even longer lever on it, and I threw it back in favor of the roller because it deflected less. Once it's up and running I may end up pulling the lever off of one completely, if it will reach. It's an easy enough change to make.

Quote
the_digital_dentist
I'm going to try using the scraper and waste bin- I have found that the nozzles tend to accumulate a lot of crud due to the shallow profile. If you use dual extrusion the scraper can be used in lieu of a tower to prime and clean the nozzle on tool-change. Just move the extruder past the scraper, extrude a few mm of filament, and drag the nozzle back over the scraper to knock it off. I don't know if that will work if you changed to E3D hot-ends. The profile of the nozzles may be too steep to use the scraper.

I think the scraper bin would be nice, but I'm putting a 300x300 bed in mine, so that means the bin has to go. and you are probably right about the E3D's. That brass nozzle is a bad shape for that scraper, unless you get it aligned just right. I think it would be more pain that it was worth for me anyways.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2016 09:20PM by TheJones.
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 09:16PM
Quote
TheJones
Quote
Dancook
I'm having a lot of issues with this Replicape controller in my printer... there's not much support for it, so it was probably a bad idea for my first attempt at building my own. I wish I would have gotten a smoothieboard instead.

But assuming that you are going to keep the Replicape, what issues are you having with it?

I'm having trouble configuring the stepper directions and endstops... trying to figure out M code and G code...
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 09:31PM
Quote
Dancook

I'm having trouble configuring the stepper directions and endstops... trying to figure out M code and G code...

Sorry I can't help more, I've never used Redeem. About the best thing I can tell you is to start watching every YouTube video you can on the subject. Your first searches might not show the video you need, but after a few videos you will start seeing related videos in your "recommended" section. You'd be surprised what you can stumble on that way
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 10:29PM
Quote
TheJones
Sorry I can't help more, I've never used Redeem. About the best thing I can tell you is to start watching every YouTube video you can on the subject. Your first searches might not show the video you need, but after a few videos you will start seeing related videos in your "recommended" section. You'd be surprised what you can stumble on that way

Yeah, silly me gets the hardware with the least support... I managed to get my end stops and steppers working correctly, I just have to figure out how to configure the soft end stops and calibrate the axes...
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 10:42PM
Anyone figured out the steps per mm on the axis' (if so please also mention your microstepping)? I am using an evga 500W and the my first arduino board with my spare ramps board (the 5v reg got fried when I was a nub and accidentally installed an endstop wrong, 5v rail from molex solved that though). Replacing that with the sainsmart 2 in 1 as I feel it genuinely deserves the "better than ramps" title but isnt as expensive or complex as a smoothie.

I found MORE broken plexi around the 4 holes that hold the back piece of clear acrylic on, should be fine though. only have a couple problems, one that im not concerned about being that my steppers were really loud when not moving but powered (will most likely go away after calibration) and the other being that I cant get my magnetic endstop for the Y back into its hole..
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 11:02PM
If anyone uses a board that runs smoothieware (SmoothieBoard, Azteeg, MKS SBASE), here are the Steinhart-Hart coefficients I am using for the hot end thermistor (values calculated from the EPCOS 230k thermistor data sheet):

temperature_control.hotend.coefficients 0.000760725000873208,0.000186600533197634,0.000000191376599901 #(CubeX Duo with EPCOS 230K thermistor)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2016 11:13PM by the_digital_dentist.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 28, 2016 11:05PM
Oh and as for reinforcing the frame for more rigidity especially since I have so much damaged acrylic and don't plan on using ABS (fumes are a no go as the printer lives in my bedroom), both of which mean I dont have an enclosure for support. I am thinking about using adjustable steel cables in an X from corner to corner on the sides and maybe back of the printer. this would help with the flex caused by the Y axis which is where it is needed most and easiest to do it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2016 11:06PM by DaGameFace.
Re: An alternative to buying a bad kit for $300-500
October 29, 2016 03:00AM
Quote
Dancook
I'm having a lot of issues with this Replicape controller in my printer... there's not much support for it, so it was probably a bad idea for my first attempt at building my own. I wish I would have gotten a smoothieboard instead.

Try a Duet WiFi, its x256 microstepping drivers will make the stepper motors super quiet. To see just a few of the printers using the Duet WiFi, see [www.duet3d.com].



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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