New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China

Quote
dintid
[*] Cold extrusion prevention? this would be nice

Somebody got a free board as part of the smoothie contest ( smoothiecontest.org ) to implement this and a few other safety features, I expect we'll have these soon.
If not, I plan on personally take time to do those. There is already a pull request for part of it on the site, it just needs refining.

Quote
dintid
[*] What does "hysteresis " actually mean in regards to heat control? It's set to 2.0 in degrees as default, but what does that really mean?

Hysteresis is for when you use bang-bang instead of PID control.
When in bang-bang mode, it'll turn the heater on if we are that temperature bellow the set temperature, and off if we are that temperature above the set temperature.
I think this explains pretty well : [smoothieware.org]

Quote
dintid
[*] What sort of overheating protections are in, and what happens when they kick in? I noticed my temperature controlled fan on heatsink for hotend stopped after heat-failure... that is not really desireable. I know Marlin had the same problem with the entire system going into Halt when a failure happened, but stopping fans is hardly the best way!

We detect things like disconnected thersmistors, connection problems, noise etc, right now. We are in the process of adding "runaway" temp problems detection too.
When an error is detected, the system goes into "HALT" mode, tries to make the system as safe as possible ( turns off heaters, does other things depending on config ), and you need to issue a M999 to get the system going again ( [smoothieware.org] )
About what happens to the fan when an error occurs, you choose that yourself by setting switch.module_name.fail_safe_set_to ( see [smoothieware.org] ), for example setting it to 1 means if the system detects an error, it'll turn the fan on.

Quote
dintid
[*] Some explanations in normal non-technical language. See the above about Hysteresis I know this can be hard for very techincal minded people to wrap their head around, but if Smoothieware is have a shot at overtaking marlin, it needs to be more easily accessible.
[/list]

We have somebody right now writing a non-technical description of all the config options, as well as a full glossary of the terms.

We actually already do try to write the documentation in as simple a language as we can, but it's not always easy.
Smoothie's documentation is already far ahead of any other firmware I know, we put a lot of effort into it, but it's not perfect, and any help is very welcome ( it's a wiki ).

Quote
arthurwolf

Quote
dintid
[*] Cold extrusion prevention? this would be nice

Somebody got a free board as part of the smoothie contest ( smoothiecontest.org ) to implement this and a few other safety features, I expect we'll have these soon.
If not, I plan on personally take time to do those. There is already a pull request for part of it on the site, it just needs refining.

Awesome

Quote
arthurwolf

Quote
dintid
[*] What does "hysteresis " actually mean in regards to heat control? It's set to 2.0 in degrees as default, but what does that really mean?

Hysteresis is for when you use bang-bang instead of PID control.
When in bang-bang mode, it'll turn the heater on if we are that temperature bellow the set temperature, and off if we are that temperature above the set temperature.
I think this explains pretty well : [smoothieware.org]

I have read - several times - it and do not at all see it as an explanation.
I know it is when i use BANG BANG instead of PID... but what does the 2c hysteresis mean?
I use PID on hotend and bang bang on bed.. it Works fine, but I just don't like having a setting without explanation... might be better for my setup to have 1,3 og 5c, but since I don't know what the setting does, I can not tune it

Quote
arthurwolf

Quote
dintid
[*] What sort of overheating protections are in, and what happens when they kick in? I noticed my temperature controlled fan on heatsink for hotend stopped after heat-failure... that is not really desireable. I know Marlin had the same problem with the entire system going into Halt when a failure happened, but stopping fans is hardly the best way!

We detect things like disconnected thersmistors, connection problems, noise etc, right now. We are in the process of adding "runaway" temp problems detection too.
When an error is detected, the system goes into "HALT" mode, tries to make the system as safe as possible ( turns off heaters, does other things depending on config ), and you need to issue a M999 to get the system going again ( [smoothieware.org] )
About what happens to the fan when an error occurs, you choose that yourself by setting switch.module_name.fail_safe_set_to ( see [smoothieware.org] ), for example setting it to 1 means if the system detects an error, it'll turn the fan on.

Thanks. It would be awesome if you had a section on smoothieware.org telling how it Works/and do when conditions are met.
I actually did implement the fail_safe for my temperature switch after I experienced it. This setting should be in the sample config I think, as more people would find/use it then

Quote
arthurwolf

Quote
dintid
[*] Some explanations in normal non-technical language. See the above about Hysteresis I know this can be hard for very techincal minded people to wrap their head around, but if Smoothieware is have a shot at overtaking marlin, it needs to be more easily accessible.
[/list]

We have somebody right now writing a non-technical description of all the config options, as well as a full glossary of the terms.

We actually already do try to write the documentation in as simple a language as we can, but it's not always easy.
Smoothie's documentation is already far ahead of any other firmware I know, we put a lot of effort into it, but it's not perfect, and any help is very welcome ( it's a wiki ).

Awesome
Actually the documetantion is only ahead regarding the technical term. If you look at the notes inside Marlin, ALL settings are explained in details and very easy to understand for novices

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Quote
dintid
I have read - several times - it and do not at all see it as an explanation.
I know it is when i use BANG BANG instead of PID... but what does the 2c hysteresis mean?
I use PID on hotend and bang bang on bed.. it Works fine, but I just don't like having a setting without explanation... might be better for my setup to have 1,3 og 5c, but since I don't know what the setting does, I can not tune it

If you set your temperature to 50 degrees, and your hysterisis is 2 degrees, then the heaters will turn on if the temperature is bellow 48 degrees, and off if the temperature is above 52 degrees.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2016 03:55AM by arthurwolf.

Quote
arthurwolf

Quote
dintid
I have read - several times - it and do not at all see it as an explanation.
I know it is when i use BANG BANG instead of PID... but what does the 2c hysteresis mean?
I use PID on hotend and bang bang on bed.. it Works fine, but I just don't like having a setting without explanation... might be better for my setup to have 1,3 og 5c, but since I don't know what the setting does, I can not tune it

If you set your temperature to 50 degrees, and your hysterisis is 2 degrees, then the heaters will turn on if the temperature is bellow 48 degrees, and off if the temperature is above 52 degrees.

Thanks

Onto someting different: Using Thermocouple on Sbase or just on real Smoothieboard using shared I/O?
Would it be possible to use multiple Thermocouplers on Sbase or real Smoothieboard using the Thermocouple Amplifier with 1-Wire Breakout Board - MAX31850K from Adafruit.

Quote
Adafruit
... it's a "1-Wire" thermocouple amp which can have any number of breakouts on a single shared I/O line.

I asked Maker-Base, which said yes, but I hesitate to just take it on thier Word, so anyone know for sure?
Also, how would one set it up in firmware if the hardware could support it?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2016 08:53AM by dintid.

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Hello.
Not working board MKS Sbase!

If SD card installed, it lights up only the led D7.
If the SD card is not installed, it lights up the led D7 and D1. Blink the led D2 and D3.
Smoothie device not appearing in device manger

I tried to upgrade the FW - nothing changes, but the file on the SD card changes from firmware.bin to firmware.cur

Also not working screen MKS TFT28 if it plugged into the connector MKS SBASE.
If I connect it in MKS BASE2, then it works, but if I plug it in MKS SBASE he is not even lit.

The manufacturer does not respond to the request!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2016 01:54AM by Potapich.

Quote
Potapich
Hello.
Not working board MKS Sbase!

If SD card installed, it lights up only the led D7.
If the SD card is not installed, it lights up the led D7 and D1. Blink the led D2 and D3.
Smoothie device not appearing in device manger

Have you installed the USB drivers from Maker-base github?
Try looking at the instructable I created

Quote
Potapich
I tried to upgrade the FW - nothing changes, but the file on the SD card changes from firmware.bin to firmware.cur

That is how it is supposed to do. When you put your config.txt and firmware.bin file on the SD Card and boot the controller, the firmware.bin file is removed and a firmware.cur file is created.
The config.txt file contains your settings for your printer

Quote
Potapich
Also not working screen MKS TFT28 if it plugged into the connector MKS SBASE.
If I connect it in MKS BASE2, then it works, but if I plug it in MKS SBASE he is not even lit.

The manufacturer does not respond to the request!

Maybe open a dispute with them?

Regarding TFT not lighting up
Maybe you have set the jumper on 12v on the back? It needs to be set to 5v if I remember correctly.

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i have a tft32 i never seen a jumper on that but may be different but to get tft going i had to supply 12v

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Jumper is set to 5v. But display is not lit.

Is it being powered through usb or have you got 12v runing through like i said it wont run on 5v it has to see 12v isnt like a lcd it need more volts

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Quote
Potapich
Jumper is set to 5v. But display is not lit.

You ARE using an MKS Sbase 1.2 controller, or? I just checked and mine is set to 5v. I only power my controller through 24v DC and no USB or anything.
Standard Arduino/Ramps combo can not deliver enough amp for it.

Quote
chris33
Is it being powered through usb or have you got 12v runing through like i said it wont run on 5v it has to see 12v isnt like a lcd it need more volts

I just checked mine.. it is set at 5v and get it from the controller. If I set it to 12v it does not Work unless I attach an external supply.

I have also used my display on a modified version of arduino/ramps where it also worked on 5v. Point being that it does not NEED 12v, but enough amperage on the 5v


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2016 01:09AM by dintid.

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I have the mks 32 tft and i have no option for 5v so your right with the tft 28 tft

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2016 07:07AM by chris33.

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Quote
chris33
I have the mks 32 tft and i have no option for 5v so your right with the tft 28 tft

It's pretty strange as they do write

Quote
MKS
No need V12 external power

Source: 3D Printer lcd/led RepRap MKS TFT32 touch screen smart controller display 3.2inch support APP/BT/customization/local language

I should get my TFT32 any day now.. sure hope I don't have to attach external 12v.. that'd just be silly.

Edit: I can't see any 12v input on it... am I missing something here, or how do you feed it 12v?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2016 07:52AM by dintid.

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Why would it be silly not much you can do with just having 5v going through controller and it does not power up through 5v i have tried. The power comes from the controller

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2016 03:28PM by chris33.

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Quote
chris33
Why would it be silly not much you can do with just having 5v going through controller and it does not power up through 5v i have tried

I'm not really sure we are talking about the same thing here... you have still not answered wheter you use TFT32 on an Sbase Card, or on Ramps or something?
¨
How do you even attach external power to TFT32?

It Would be stupid if I needed to attach external power to TFT32. Especially since it doesn't have a power plug and TFT28 does not need it.

Maybe you have a defective TFT32 or Sbase, or you are using it on Ramps, or some other device which can't provide enough power?

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No external power power the sbase with 12v and the tft powers through the board.

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Check out mine when i powered sbase with 12v


sorry for blurred and large picture

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2016 06:37PM by chris33.

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Hello.

Now I'm trying to configure my MKS Sbase v1.2 and I have some problems with my steppers.
Problems:
1) X axis stepper turn off during printing from SD card, or from PC. Sometimes it happens right at the beginning of print, sometimes in the middle of printing.
If I left USB power for board, but unplug and plug again 12V power, when X axis stopped, it starts to move immediately.
It happens only during print
2) After execution of any program with SD card or PC (for example Zprobe), when X and Y axis Homed, if I move X or Y axis in any direction at any distance, Z axis moves upwards.

System:
1)X axis nema17 1.7A
2)Y axis nema23 2.3A
3)Z axis nema23 2.3A
4)Extruder nema17 1.7A
5)Power 12V
6)Endstops - inductive sensors connected through optocouplers.
7)Step divider - 32

What do you think, Is it power problems or firmware?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2016 02:19PM by ManniK.

Quote
ManniK
Hello.

What do you think, Is it power problems or firmware?

I'm no Expert in this, but have seen the problem mentioned now and then.. meaning "my" solutions are what I've bumbed into elsewhere.

When you say print from SD, do you mean micro SD on controller, or on display, or?

Try a different USB cable.. might be EMI noise.

IF you print from SD from display:
I thnk it could be either Loose connection to your display - check cable, or maybe EMI noise... how long of a cable do you use from controller to display?

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Quote
dintid
I'm no Expert in this, but have seen the problem mentioned now and then.. meaning "my" solutions are what I've bumbed into elsewhere.

When you say print from SD, do you mean micro SD on controller, or on display, or?

Try a different USB cable.. might be EMI noise.

I print from micro SD on controller.
I tried 6 different USB cables, one of them came with MKS.

I want to try 24V instead of 12V. Perhaps insufficient power supply for stepper? If so, then I do not understand why the weakest stepper shut down.

Quote
ManniK
I want to try 24V instead of 12V. Perhaps insufficient power supply for stepper? If so, then I do not understand why the weakest stepper shut down.

It doesn't sound like anything to do with USB, and forget about EMI noise; I can almost guarantee it's not that. I would not try to go to 24V yet either - that introduces all sorts of other issues (like finding 24V fans and driving 12V beds at 50% duty cycle).

Your stepper motors are all VERY high current rated (mine are only 1.3A for XYZ, 1.7A on extruder) - however what's important is what current you are actually running them at - please post your configuration options for alpha_current, beta_current, gamma_current, delta_current. Note that if you have executed an M500 command then this will save a separate set of current values in config-override in a line starting with M907, and anything you save in config.txt is irrelevant.

I suspect that you are overheating the X stepper motor driver (or motor). Powering it off again resets the thermal protection and allows it to run again when you reconnect the main power. The important thing is that you run the X motor at a sensible current level - i.e. NOT 1.7A, but something more like 1A or potentially even lower. You should also not be running the other motors at their full 2.3A rating - something more like 1.5A is more sensible. The DRV8825 on the SBASE are good for up to 1.5 ~ 2A depending on cooling, and there's a number of reports that the SBASE's heatsinks are not the most effective ... so if you get weird stepper behaviour, a good first step reduce or increase your motor current depending on what exactly is happening and what your current settings are.

Another thing to check is whether the motors are very hot or not ... in particular the X axis motor before you start (when it doesn't work afterwards), once it stops, and when it works ...

Quote
zylantha

Quote
ManniK
I want to try 24V instead of 12V. Perhaps insufficient power supply for stepper? If so, then I do not understand why the weakest stepper shut down.

It doesn't sound like anything to do with USB, and forget about EMI noise; I can almost guarantee it's not that. I would not try to go to 24V yet either - that introduces all sorts of other issues (like finding 24V fans and driving 12V beds at 50% duty cycle).

That is really rather minor issues But yes, it is something you need to remember doing and not something I'd do before everything is working as it should.
Nice thing about 24v is how you can use much thinner wiring and use physically smaller and cheaper PSU.

Quote
zylantha
I suspect that you are overheating the X stepper motor driver (or motor). Powering it off again resets the thermal protection and allows it to run again when you reconnect the main power. The important thing is that you run the X motor at a sensible current level - i.e. NOT 1.7A, but something more like 1A or potentially even lower. You should also not be running the other motors at their full 2.3A rating - something more like 1.5A is more sensible. The DRV8825 on the SBASE are good for up to 1.5 ~ 2A depending on cooling, and there's a number of reports that the SBASE's heatsinks are not the most effective ... so if you get weird stepper behaviour, a good first step reduce or increase your motor current depending on what exactly is happening and what your current settings are.
Another thing to check is whether the motors are very hot or not ... in particular the X axis motor before you start (when it doesn't work afterwards), once it stops, and when it works ...

Must admit I didn't pay attention to the motor specs and I believe this could be the real reasons for the problems.

I'm rather disappointed in my heatsinks on both my Sbase 1.2... they literally fell off... no thradding in the heatsinks to attach them, so cleaned up the drivers and attached them using 3M 486MP tape... my drivers are now overheating even at 0.6-0.7 ...
I don't have air on it atm, but it shouldn't be necessary either

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Hello,
Sorry that I did not reply for a while.

My config file for steppers.

# Stepper module pins ( ports, and pin numbers, appending "!" to the number will invert a pin )
alpha_step_pin                               2.0              # Pin for alpha stepper step signal
alpha_dir_pin                                0.5!             # Pin for alpha stepper direction
alpha_en_pin                                 0.4              # Pin for alpha enable pin
alpha_current                                1.6              # X stepper motor current
alpha_max_rate                               15000.0          # mm/min

beta_step_pin                                2.1              # Pin for beta stepper step signal
beta_dir_pin                                 0.11!            # Pin for beta stepper direction
beta_en_pin                                  0.10             # Pin for beta enable
beta_current                                 2.6              # Y stepper motor current
beta_max_rate                                1250.0           # mm/min

gamma_step_pin                               2.2              # Pin for gamma stepper step signal
gamma_dir_pin                                0.20             # Pin for gamma stepper direction
gamma_en_pin                                 0.19             # Pin for gamma enable
gamma_current                                2.6              # Z stepper motor current
gamma_max_rate                               300.0            # mm/min

Now, I will try to use current for Nema23 - 1.5A
Nema17 - 1.3A.
And check temperature of steppers and drivers.

Also I would like to connect steppers throught seperate leadshine drivers, to find out whether it is drivers problem or not.

Quote
ManniK

alpha_max_rate                               15000.0          # mm/min
beta_max_rate                                1250.0           # mm/min
gamma_max_rate                               300.0            # mm/min

Got an extra zero on your alpha_max_rate, or are you trying to launch it into orbit?

Definitely drop the current down and check driver / motor temps and driver heatsink adhesion.

You shouldn't need external drivers unless your printer really is massive and needs full current on your steppers (which you shouldn't run at without active cooling on them anyway). You should go to 24v before external drivers (much easier and cheaper, and much less ugly external wiring).

Another thing you could do is turn off microstepping as that generates extra heat but it's far more logical to drop the current first.

Do you think Duet FW will work on this Board?

Quote
Potapich
Do you think Duet FW will work on this Board?

It won't, nobody has attempted to port it.

the motherboard it's dead.
i 've been conected the motherboard on win10 ... and with pronterface, i start to move on x my motor. Imediatly boom - and the motherboard - was black.
the piece dead it's marked on red in the photo


anyway, i have received a ultimaker 2 motherboard.
For this mb, i changed the sensors temp heater and bed.
Still have trouble on z - now i print in the air not on the bed!!!! ... after new firmware ... stil print in the air

... i try to use pronterface for ultimaker, on z it is moving very slow

where did you purchase the mks base for future reference as thats the one with out the crystal fix i know that won't be your issue

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Quote
tomi01_2000
the piece dead it's marked on red in the Photo

How did you figure it was this piece? Asking as I have a dead Y axis. Both the driver AND external output pins and my Z-driver is having issues as well. Z-driver external pins Works fine though.

Quote
tomi01_2000
... i try to use pronterface for ultimaker, on z it is moving very slow

You can define speed in pronterface for XY and Z. Speed settings in GUI overrules firmware.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2016 02:23AM by dintid.

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when your board went out did all of the lcds stay turned on regardless of having a sd card in the board. The reason I ask is, my board recently died. It would not be recognized by my computers on win 10 or 7.... It would not load firmware and change the extension to cur. the board appeared to be bricked. I started my printing experience with an original smoothieboard, but my cheap heatbed blew the thermistor inputs. I purchased the sbase as a replacement since uberclock always seems to be sold out

Quote
Joeyprints
when your board went out did all of the lcds stay turned on regardless of having a sd card in the board. The reason I ask is, my board recently died. It would not be recognized by my computers on win 10 or 7.... It would not load firmware and change the extension to cur. the board appeared to be bricked. I started my printing experience with an original smoothieboard, but my cheap heatbed blew the thermistor inputs. I purchased the sbase as a replacement since uberclock always seems to be sold out

Asking me, or?

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