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Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.

Posted by DjDemonD 
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 04:00AM
Quote
hardy1234
Hi guys, what is the best position for the piezo?
I'm not sure. Since I have a moving bed y axis.

I have this printer.

[www.3d-druckerforum.de]

And this holder as dual

[www.thingiverse.com]

Im not so good in redesign I hope you can help me thanks.

I had already tried FSR sensors in stamps but these have lasted since I had them on the 3 stops from the moving bed.
That was not good

I hope this solution is a success

Greetings Hardy

Hi if you are going to use the extruder you linked to from thingiverse then it uses a groovemount to hold the hotend then you can add a Piezo20 module or a newer orion module.


Simon.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters. PT1000 cartridge sensors plug straight into duet boards and others.
Published:Inventions
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 07:16AM
hello I have the holder of the Thingiverse link. How can I best add it? where do you mean exactly? , It's dual on both sides.

I do not really want to lose height either.

thanks hardy
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 07:42AM
Well you are going to lose 18mm. So there is maybe a way to put a sensor in the bracket that holds the hotend assembly to the carriage here is something I tried and it works, but its beta its not a turn-key solution it will take some time to get right for your setup. But its worth it piezo sensor are precise instruments but this means they take a little time to get right.

[www.thingiverse.com]

You could also try an underbed setup.


Simon.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters. PT1000 cartridge sensors plug straight into duet boards and others.
Published:Inventions
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 08:48AM
Thank you Simon ,


Super that's an idea.

I always thought it must be glued. or floating in a pod.

I will try the setup on the stepper motors on both sides. How tight are they to pull the screws?
That looks to me very well out on the sides I still have room

Under the Headbed, it has already not worked with the FSR sensors. Movement)

Think also temperature is a problem?
However, I would have a question about that.
Can you just stick them with Kaptonband underneath or do you need these levers?

Or you could punch a hole in the piezo and screw it with the heating bed screw and spring at the breakpoints. So that the piezo rests with the spring to the lower holder and is pressed with the spring.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 09:21AM
Drilled Piezos underneath the bed can work heat isn't as much of a problem as with fsrs and piezo are way more sensitive.

That being said a carriage mounted plate can also work.

Unless you intend to make your own circuit I'd suggest using our universal kit pcb and a selection of Piezos and see what works.


Simon.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters. PT1000 cartridge sensors plug straight into duet boards and others.
Published:Inventions
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 10:00AM
Hardy:
From the thingy image it appears that a grove mount on the hot end would work. Specifically the new Orion
Regards,
Stef
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 11:51AM
Hi. Does the Orion use 2 separate piezo discs as opposed to a drilled one?
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 12:37PM
NO think One .
My Question of the drill Piezo where to the Mount on Headbed Screw and Hold from Spring , it was only a Idee .
But I Think the Pressure ist to big from the Spring
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 12:41PM
Quote
tekkydave
Hi. Does the Orion use 2 separate piezo discs as opposed to a drilled one?

The Orion uses Piezos soldered to a pcb. The pcb has a hole in it.


Simon.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters. PT1000 cartridge sensors plug straight into duet boards and others.
Published:Inventions
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 01:55PM
Quote
DjDemonD
Quote
tekkydave
Hi. Does the Orion use 2 separate piezo discs as opposed to a drilled one?

The Orion uses Piezos soldered to a pcb. The pcb has a hole in it.

So the filament isn't going through a hole in a piezo. I seem to be having issues with my PP20 where the filament is catching on the sharp edge of the drilled hole. Could be a good reason to upgrade to the Orion winking smiley
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 01:56PM
Hardy
I have a number underbed with different sizes of discs. The holders are mounted to the under bed carriage to which is mounted the work plate using 4 corner springs. I have previously posted images on this thread.
Stef
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 02:31PM
Quote
tekkydave
Quote
DjDemonD
Quote
tekkydave
Hi. Does the Orion use 2 separate piezo discs as opposed to a drilled one?

The Orion uses Piezos soldered to a pcb. The pcb has a hole in it.

So the filament isn't going through a hole in a piezo. I seem to be having issues with my PP20 where the filament is catching on the sharp edge of the drilled hole. Could be a good reason to upgrade to the Orion winking smiley

Is it a 3mm filament system, if it is thats an issue that might solved by taking a needle file to the drilled metal edge? If it's 1.75mm then use a short piece of bowden tube through the unit just as a filament guide, this is good practice not to have any 1.75mm filament unconstrained especially with flexible materials.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 02:31PM by DjDemonD.


Simon.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters. PT1000 cartridge sensors plug straight into duet boards and others.
Published:Inventions
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2018 02:41PM
Quote
DjDemonD

Is it a 3mm filament system, if it is thats an issue that might solved by taking a needle file to the drilled metal edge? If it's 1.75mm then use a short piece of bowden tube through the unit just as a filament guide, this is good practice not to have any 1.75mm filament unconstrained especially with flexible materials.

Yes, 3mm. Groovemount on Titan. I have to take it all apart tomorrow to see what's going on. I'll see if the sharp edge can be taken off. Thanks.


Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 03, 2018 06:30AM
Quote
tekkydave
Quote
DjDemonD

Is it a 3mm filament system, if it is thats an issue that might solved by taking a needle file to the drilled metal edge? If it's 1.75mm then use a short piece of bowden tube through the unit just as a filament guide, this is good practice not to have any 1.75mm filament unconstrained especially with flexible materials.

Yes, 3mm. Groovemount on Titan. I have to take it all apart tomorrow to see what's going on. I'll see if the sharp edge can be taken off. Thanks.

[attachment 103953 IMG_20171211_112204.jpg]

Just finished stripping it all down. There were some small bits of piezo material missing around the edge of the drilled hole. I suspect the PETG I am using (new roll) was catching. I also replaced the nozzle as I suspect the fragments of piezo were now partially blocking it. All put back together and printing great now. While I had it apart I filed the edges of the hole to ensure the filament cannot catch. I guess this is an issue that only occurs in 3mm setups as the 1.75s will be protected by the PTFE tube.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 03, 2018 06:35AM
I think I've heard about it happening in the past perhaps once. And with 3mm yes. Don't worry if there is a little ceramic missing, in terms of function it makes almost no difference.


Simon.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters. PT1000 cartridge sensors plug straight into duet boards and others.
Published:Inventions
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 03, 2018 06:41AM
Quote
DjDemonD
I think I've heard about it happening in the past perhaps once. And with 3mm yes. Don't worry if there is a little ceramic missing, in terms of function it makes almost no difference.

Yes, I can confirm that - the PP20 works fine.

Trouble is I have to replace the nozzle when this happens as it gets blocked by the fragments. Hopefully now it is all filed smooth it will be the last time - except if the nozzle is worn or course smiling smiley
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 03, 2018 07:20AM
Somebody had the same problem as you and I think he solved it by putting kapton tape over the piezo before drilling, I wonder whether you could do the same thing but poke a hole in the tape to put the filament through.

Idris


{Precision Piezo} Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 03, 2018 07:45AM
Quote
Moriquendi
Somebody had the same problem as you and I think he solved it by putting kapton tape over the piezo before drilling, I wonder whether you could do the same thing but poke a hole in the tape to put the filament through.

Idris
Thats a good idea. I bought the piezo pre-drilled as I didn't fancy drilling it myself. However, I have an idea for a slight modification to the groovemount plastic parts for 3mm use - watch this space smiling smiley
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 03, 2018 07:54AM
Yup, I did put some kapton because the kapton height is very small (and the insulation is good)

But you can use whatever tape you want.

The main problem is that strippinf the tape will be VERY hard.


with kapton, I was able to drill some nice holes in the piezo...
drilled piezo

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2018 07:54AM by tech-raton.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 03, 2018 08:46AM
Good Idea!


Simon.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters. PT1000 cartridge sensors plug straight into duet boards and others.
Published:Inventions
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 03, 2018 09:37AM
Tried to put a cylindrical section in to separate the filament from the piezo. The dimensions are just too tight with 3mm filament and a 5mm hole in the piezo - too big and it stops the piezo flexing, too small and it causes friction on the filament.
Maybe I will get that Orion after all smiling smiley


Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 04, 2018 05:32PM
HI Guys ,
I tried this Experiment and it not Works :-)
I Probe another Solution

Thanks Hardy

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2018 06:09PM by hardy1234.
Attachments:
open | download - ov_20180404_230915.jpg (55.6 KB)
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 04, 2018 05:51PM
For marlin try these settings:
[forums.reprap.org]

It does not matter if it triggers when moving or printing, only if it triggers during a probing move before it touches the bed (or fails to trigger when it touches the bed).

You have a dual extruder setup and your piezo implementation is basic, but it possibly will work, these are very versatile devices.


Simon.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters. PT1000 cartridge sensors plug straight into duet boards and others.
Published:Inventions
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 04, 2018 06:06PM
Oh that a Fail do not work , I Probe to under Bed
greets Hardy

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2018 06:08PM by hardy1234.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 07, 2018 11:56AM
Well, I bought an Orion. Fitted it today and am impressed. It's much improved over the PP20 in terms of construction and accuracy. Good work guys smiling smiley
The only config change I needed to make on the Duet is changing I0 to I1 in the M558 command due to the Orion being active-low.
My only niggle at the moment is that the groove-mount seems to be a bit loose in the Titan so there's a bit of wobble. I may need some padding on the bottom of the Titan body or a slightly modified plastic part.



I still have issues loading 3mm filament but I'm convinced this is down to the design of the E3D Titan and V6 heatsink. If there is any significant curl on the filament it doesn't always cleanly enter the top of the heatsink, fouling on the edge and jamming. I'm putting this down to the stiffness of 3mm filament. I found heating the filament slightly and bending it against the natural curve to straighten it lets it feed through without fouling the edge of the heatsink.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 08, 2018 08:56AM
Another interesting thing since upgrading from the PP20 to the Orion:
When I first fitted and tested it there was no filament loaded - it triggered perfectly every time once I had tweaked the sensitivity down slightly.
With filament loaded but the hotend only at 130C it doesn't trigger consistently. Some times it fails to trigger causing me to hit the Emergency Stop. I never had this effect with the PP20.
I noticed with the hotend at full temperature (215C for the filament I currently have loaded) it works fine every time.
This may be another 3mm filament issue. It's almost as if the filament needs to be soft enough to give enough for the heatsink to be pushed up to deform the piezos. If it's too cool the filament is stopping the heatsink from deforming the piezos, causing the force to be transferred through to the Titan.
Any thoughts?
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 08, 2018 09:36AM
Hmm, that's interesting, you may well be right.

I don't think we did much testing with 3mm filament.

Idris


{Precision Piezo} Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 08, 2018 09:56AM
Maybe the reason I didn't get this with the PP20 is because it has a bit more room for the filament to flex a little. Whereas the Orion has a much tighter (and better, actually) filament path.

For now I need to find the best temperature to probe at so I don't get too much ooze but also get a bit of "give" in the filament.

smiling smiley
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 08, 2018 12:57PM
The hole in the Orion PCB is 6mm, you might be able to find some PTFE tube that would fit through into the hot end.

I wonder whether if you retracted the filament a bit at the end of a print it would relieve enough pressure on the nozzle and allow you to probe with the cold nozzle?

Idris


{Precision Piezo} Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 08, 2018 02:47PM
I thought about retracting. I'll have to give it a try.
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