Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
Posted by Kasahabo
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 10, 2016 06:28PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 188 |
So doing a G30 returns this value:
Z-probe:11.31 X:0.00 Y:90.00 zCorr:0.00
Is the Z-probe value what I put into the calculator?
(Sorry for all these questions about something that should be fairly straight forward. I have a lot on my mind recently.)
Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula
Z-probe:11.31 X:0.00 Y:90.00 zCorr:0.00
Is the Z-probe value what I put into the calculator?
(Sorry for all these questions about something that should be fairly straight forward. I have a lot on my mind recently.)
Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 10, 2016 09:12PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 73 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 10, 2016 09:32PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 432 |
I guess this is the cause of misunderstanding.
You need minimum two extension cables - one 3-pin to connect the servo to RAMPS (without changes, you need all 3 pins/wires) and one more 2 or 3 pin cable to connect the z-probe mechanical switch to RAMPS.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2016 09:33PM by paul_delta.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
You need minimum two extension cables - one 3-pin to connect the servo to RAMPS (without changes, you need all 3 pins/wires) and one more 2 or 3 pin cable to connect the z-probe mechanical switch to RAMPS.
Quote
Sven.L
Only one.Quote
paul_delta
How many 3-pin black-red-white extension cables do you have in your kit?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2016 09:33PM by paul_delta.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 10, 2016 09:42PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 432 |
PS: if you already modified 3-pin cable, use it for switch. For servo you will need 3 pieces of wire to extend the servo cable so it will be able to reach RAMPS from the highest Z position. Just cut the servo cable and solder 3 wires connecting two pieces to make servo cable longer. Make sure to connect the same colors and insulate joints carefully to avoid shorts.
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2016 09:52PM by paul_delta.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2016 09:52PM by paul_delta.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 08:24AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 73 |
NOW this all begins to make sense to me. But here is the problem:
Earlier this week, I tried already, for other purposes, to get any such cable with a 3-pin connector. I live in Jamaica, as a small island it has a small economy. No one here really deals with such things. I went to over 15 different shops, and could not get those things anywhere.
I feel desperate. But I wonder, if any of you could send me such a cable with the correct connectors on both ends. I would pay through my PayPal account. Is here anyone who would assist me that way?
Earlier this week, I tried already, for other purposes, to get any such cable with a 3-pin connector. I live in Jamaica, as a small island it has a small economy. No one here really deals with such things. I went to over 15 different shops, and could not get those things anywhere.
I feel desperate. But I wonder, if any of you could send me such a cable with the correct connectors on both ends. I would pay through my PayPal account. Is here anyone who would assist me that way?
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 05:40PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 188 |
After probing the bed over 7 points using dc42's calculator, i get the following results:
Z-probe:20.07 X:51.94 Y:61.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.16 X:0.00 Y:80.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:19.99 X:69.27 Y:40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:19.30 X:69.27 Y:-40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:19.66 X:0.00 Y:-80.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.36 X:-69.27 Y:-40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.38 X:-69.27 Y:40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.01 X:0.00 Y:0.00 zCorr:0.00
If, from my understanding, I use the Z-Probe value as the nozzle height error, then calculate, the suggested new Z-home position is 250.38mm, which is almost 20mm more then what I could set it as without it hitting the bed when I manually set it. Am I doing this right? I feel like it's wrong.
Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula
Z-probe:20.07 X:51.94 Y:61.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.16 X:0.00 Y:80.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:19.99 X:69.27 Y:40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:19.30 X:69.27 Y:-40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:19.66 X:0.00 Y:-80.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.36 X:-69.27 Y:-40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.38 X:-69.27 Y:40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.01 X:0.00 Y:0.00 zCorr:0.00
If, from my understanding, I use the Z-Probe value as the nozzle height error, then calculate, the suggested new Z-home position is 250.38mm, which is almost 20mm more then what I could set it as without it hitting the bed when I manually set it. Am I doing this right? I feel like it's wrong.
Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 05:41PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 432 |
Quote
Sven.L
I feel desperate. But I wonder, if any of you could send me such a cable with the correct connectors on both ends. I would pay through my PayPal account. Is here anyone who would assist me that way?
[alofthobbies.com] - I bought from them couple of times. They ship to Jamaica via USPS and accept Paypal.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 05:52PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 432 |
I guess your initial height was 20mm. AFAIK the calculator normalizes errors and you can ignore proposed height and put your value, or check it experimentally. It will not affect the bed leveling.
PS: things to remember - z-probe returns the distance that probe traveled. So, if your initial height was 20 and z-probe returned 19.30 - it means that nozzle will hit the bed at this point if you will go to Z0. If z-probe returns 20.5 - the nozzle will be 0.5mm above the bed if you will go Z0. This is the most confusing part.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2016 07:00PM by paul_delta.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
PS: things to remember - z-probe returns the distance that probe traveled. So, if your initial height was 20 and z-probe returned 19.30 - it means that nozzle will hit the bed at this point if you will go to Z0. If z-probe returns 20.5 - the nozzle will be 0.5mm above the bed if you will go Z0. This is the most confusing part.
Quote
Captain_Tim
After probing the bed over 7 points using dc42's calculator, i get the following results:
Z-probe:20.07 X:51.94 Y:61.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.16 X:0.00 Y:80.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:19.99 X:69.27 Y:40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:19.30 X:69.27 Y:-40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:19.66 X:0.00 Y:-80.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.36 X:-69.27 Y:-40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.38 X:-69.27 Y:40.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:20.01 X:0.00 Y:0.00 zCorr:0.00
If, from my understanding, I use the Z-Probe value as the nozzle height error, then calculate, the suggested new Z-home position is 250.38mm, which is almost 20mm more then what I could set it as without it hitting the bed when I manually set it. Am I doing this right? I feel like it's wrong.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2016 07:00PM by paul_delta.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 06:02PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 432 |
PS: so, for initial height 20, to get the value for calculator - just deduct 20 from z-probe value. For example for z-probe 20.5 you will fill 20.5-20=0.5 to calculator fot this point. For 19.3 you will fill the value -0.7.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2016 07:01PM by paul_delta.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2016 07:01PM by paul_delta.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 06:13PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 432 |
Actually, with new 0.92.8 Repetier it's much faster to use distortion matrix output (G33 L0), as spiffcow described recently.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:11PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 188 |
Quote
paul_delta
PS: so, for initial height 20, to get the value for calculator - just deduct 20 from z-probe value. For example for z-probe 20.5 you will fill 20.5-20=0.5 to calculator fot this point. For 19.3 you will fill the value -0.7.
Where is it getting the 20 from? I was doing all these probe points with 5 as the Z value.
Also, I'm presuming that the Firmware type on the calculator should be set to Repetier? As that's what I'm using. Stupid question to ask, but I love to double check.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2016 07:14PM by Captain_Tim.
Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:23PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 432 |
Quote
Captain_Tim
Where is it getting the 20 from? I was doing all these probe points with 5 as the Z value
From firmware settings. What is your z-probe height value? You have to home first, then go to Z5, for example, and measure with G30.
Quote
Captain_Tim
Also, I'm presuming that the Firmware type on the calculator should be set to Repetier? As that's what I'm using. Stupid question to ask, but I love to double check.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:25PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 98 |
Quote
Captain_Tim
Quote
paul_delta
PS: so, for initial height 20, to get the value for calculator - just deduct 20 from z-probe value. For example for z-probe 20.5 you will fill 20.5-20=0.5 to calculator fot this point. For 19.3 you will fill the value -0.7.
Where is it getting the 20 from? I was doing all these probe points with 5 as the Z value.
Also, I'm presuming that the Firmware type on the calculator should be set to Repetier? As that's what I'm using. Stupid question to ask, but I love to double check.
That's the distance at which your printer starts actively probing. There's a few settings that impact this, and it varies by firmware. On Repetier I believe it is something like MAX_ZPROBE_DISTANCE - ZPROBE_HEIGHT.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:25PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 188 |
Quote
paul_delta
[attachment 72353 facepalm.jpg]
Best reply ever.
I must have been around Z20 last time I did it. I just did it with Z 5 and got the following results:
I must have been around 20 for Z when I did it. I just did it at Z5, with 10 points, and there are some big changes.
Z-probe:5.39 X:0.00 Y:85.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:5.24 X:73.61 Y:42.50 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:5.39 X:73.61 Y:-42.50 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:11.31 X:0.00 Y:-85.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:17.69 X:-73.61 Y:-42.50 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:16.34 X:-73.61 Y:42.50 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:11.18 X:0.00 Y:42.50 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:8.49 X:36.81 Y:-21.25 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:14.68 X:-36.81 Y:-21.25 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:11.32 X:0.00 Y:0.00 zCorr:0.00
Should I home it after every point?
Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:27PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 188 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:34PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 432 |
No need to home every time.
Your result are very strange... more than 12mm difference. I doubt that your printer is so uncalibrated, looks like missed steps.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
Your result are very strange... more than 12mm difference. I doubt that your printer is so uncalibrated, looks like missed steps.
Quote
Captain_Tim
Quote
paul_delta
[attachment 72353 facepalm.jpg]
Best reply ever.
I must have been around Z20 last time I did it. I just did it with Z 5 and got the following results:
I must have been around 20 for Z when I did it. I just did it at Z5, with 10 points, and there are some big changes.
Z-probe:5.39 X:0.00 Y:85.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:5.24 X:73.61 Y:42.50 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:5.39 X:73.61 Y:-42.50 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:11.31 X:0.00 Y:-85.00 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:17.69 X:-73.61 Y:-42.50 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:16.34 X:-73.61 Y:42.50 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:11.18 X:0.00 Y:42.50 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:8.49 X:36.81 Y:-21.25 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:14.68 X:-36.81 Y:-21.25 zCorr:0.00
Z-probe:11.32 X:0.00 Y:0.00 zCorr:0.00
Should I home it after every point?
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:35PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 188 |
Quote
paul_delta
No need to home every time.
Your result are very strange... more than 12mm difference. I doubt that your printer is so uncalibrated, looks like missed steps.
What would you recommend for troubleshooting and fixing?
Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:36PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 432 |
PS: you have to measure your z-height and put exact value.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:44PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 188 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:44PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 432 |
Try to measure the same point three-four times:
G28
G1 X-70 Y-42 Z5
G30
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
G28
G1 X-70 Y-42 Z5
G30
Quote
Captain_Tim
Quote
paul_delta
No need to home every time.
Your result are very strange... more than 12mm difference. I doubt that your printer is so uncalibrated, looks like missed steps.
What would you recommend for troubleshooting and fixing?
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:52PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 432 |
Sorry, missed "z-probe". You have to measure z-probe height using firmware and put it in eeprom.
0.9 was my value, your value can be different.
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
0.9 was my value, your value can be different.
Quote
Captain_Tim
Quote
paul_delta
PS: you have to measure your z-height and put exact value.
Measure the Z-height after I do a G30 at a probe point?
My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 07:54PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 188 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 09:59PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 98 |
Quote
Captain_Tim
To measure the Z-probe height, I slowly lower it to the bed until it picks up the bed?
You could.. Or you could just adjust the Z height at the end by slowly lowering the effector until the paper no longer slides. It doesn't matter how high the probe is, as long as it doesn't slam into the bed. After you have your printer calibrated you shouldn't have to use the probe again unless you modify/repair the printer.
I used this script when calibrating with the probe:
G28
G1 X0 Y90 Z50
G30
G1 X77.94 Y45 Z50
G30
G1 X77.94 Y-45 Z50
G30
G1 X0 Y-90 Z50
G30
G1 X-77.94 Y-45 Z50
G30
G1 X-77.94 Y45 Z50
G30
G1 X0 Y45 Z50
G30
G1 X38.97 Y-22.5 Z50
G30
G1 X-38.97 Y-22.5 Z50
G30
G1 X0 Y0 Z50
G30
Reverse the sign of each probe result and put it in dc42's calculator.
I've been working on a utility to help with this.. I might post it tonight if I can verify it's working correctly (short on time, so no guarantees).
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 10:03PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 188 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 11, 2016 10:16PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 63 |
For anyone who is still using Marlin 1.0.0 from Folger Tech, here is a working Marlin 1.1.0 RC3 I updated to work with our printers.
[drive.google.com]
-EB
[drive.google.com]
-EB
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 12, 2016 02:27AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 98 |
Quote
Captain_Tim
I did the calculator again, this time lowering my bed radius. These are the Z-Probe Values from Z5, a lot better.
5.09
5.12
4.49
4.57
5.06
5.12
5.12
4.99
5.09
4.99
That's great! If you're running repetier you should now use G33 to map the bed height.. After which you should try printing something tall and something wide, just to make sure everything actually works.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 12, 2016 06:59AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 107 |
Is there much difference? Do you know what's been updated? I still use Marlin as I can't get the Repetier software to install on my machine.
Quote
EvilBetty
For anyone who is still using Marlin 1.0.0 from Folger Tech, here is a working Marlin 1.1.0 RC3 I updated to work with our printers.
[drive.google.com]
-EB
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 12, 2016 02:36PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 73 |
Paul,
I just checked them. The cable costs 1.85 US$. But they really try to charge me 50 US$ to Jamaica.
If I send such a cable inside a regular letter, I pay less that 2 US$ for it.
I think, I still have to hope, someone here could send me such a cable in a regular letter at regular fees, and I would pay with PayPal.
I just checked them. The cable costs 1.85 US$. But they really try to charge me 50 US$ to Jamaica.
If I send such a cable inside a regular letter, I pay less that 2 US$ for it.
I think, I still have to hope, someone here could send me such a cable in a regular letter at regular fees, and I would pay with PayPal.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 12, 2016 02:44PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,159 |
Quote
Sven.L
Paul,
I just checked them. The cable costs 1.85 US$. But they really try to charge me 50 US$ to Jamaica.
If I send such a cable inside a regular letter, I pay less that 2 US$ for it.
I think, I still have to hope, someone here could send me such a cable in a regular letter at regular fees, and I would pay with PayPal.
What cable do you want can't wade thru the full thread to find it but I may be able to help?
Also what lengths do you need or if I can send you the bare ends / Crimps can you make them up yourself
Doug
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level February 12, 2016 11:19PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 73 |
Dougal, this one:
Heavy-duty Servo Extensions (22AWG)
It's a triple wire (24 or 36 inch long), and has on each end a 3-pin connector. Please see the photo.
This cable is available for around 2 US$, and can fit a regular letter envelope.
Maybe it's better, if it comes with these 3-pin connectors already. I am not experienced with electricity and electronics, and also don't have these special tongues that would be so beneficial for such clamp processing. I am too afraid to do something wrong, I admit. That's why I prefer the easiest way (idiot-proof for me). :-D
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2016 11:22PM by Sven.L.
Heavy-duty Servo Extensions (22AWG)
It's a triple wire (24 or 36 inch long), and has on each end a 3-pin connector. Please see the photo.
This cable is available for around 2 US$, and can fit a regular letter envelope.
Maybe it's better, if it comes with these 3-pin connectors already. I am not experienced with electricity and electronics, and also don't have these special tongues that would be so beneficial for such clamp processing. I am too afraid to do something wrong, I admit. That's why I prefer the easiest way (idiot-proof for me). :-D
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2016 11:22PM by Sven.L.
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